Jimmy Butler traded to Philly

[thedoper]

I think at present Roco and Saric are better than Lavine and Markanen. The future who knows. But for now Thibs improved the roster, although it is nominal improved compared to what we would have had if Jimmy was committed to this team. Either way I think Thibs the GM has been fairly resilient. Not outstanding, but I'm not seeing any huge blunders either. If we would have never made the Jimmy trade and had another lottery year last year, I'm sure everyone would have been fairly satisfied with this being our current roster. Again, modest improvements, which is something considering that we were facing total implosion based on how the Wolves have handled crisis in the past.

[Jester1534]

So I do like this trade considering the position we were in, but I can't help but find it hilarious that Thibs essentially traded Butler, LaVine, Dunn (his #5 pick after 1 year), a #7 pick, Patton (his #17 pick after 1 year) for Covington, Saric, Bayless, and a 2nd.

If that's not terms for firing ( on top of our on court display ) I'm not sure what is.

That wasn't the trade.

He traded lavine, dunn, and mark for covington, saric, bayless, 2nd rounder, 1 year of playoffs, and 1 year of headaches.

Covington is still the best player in the deal.

I guess that's a fair way to look at it too, though you are forgetting the #17 pick in Patton.

Personally, I'd take LaVine and Markannen over the long haul, especially with the way the league keeps trying to diminish defense. The spacing on that team would be unreal.

You're trying way too hard to make Thibs look like he wasted assets here. Your first post wasn't even remotely close to a realistic view of what assets were traded for what. And then kek accurately laid out what was essentially swapped over the course of two years, and you still came back with "you're forgetting the 17th pick" when the Wolves never would have had that pick to begin with. That pick was a byproduct of giving up LaVine, Dunn, and Markkanen.

It's essentially LaVine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Covington, Saric, Bayless, and a 2nd-round pick. And depending on your individual opinion of each player, that will determine whether it's hilarious and grounds for firing or relatively close to even value, or exceeding, and worthy of some sort of praise aside from the chaos and slander that came with it.

PS: One could argue that Covington (36.9% 3P in 17-18) and Saric (39.3% 3P) are better floor spacers than LaVine (34.1% 3P) and Markkanen (36.2% 3P), but whatever floats your boat.

I don't understand why you're so adamant about defending Thibs.

He has not been good here.

As for the assets, do we have any of those I listed on our team? No, they were all moved for what we do have on our team.

Roco and Saric were spacing for Simmons and Embiid. A bit better combo than our two young ones. We'll see if they keep it up. Meanwhile Markannen has been out and LaVine is looking great. Over the long haul, I'll take the LaVine and Markannen.

To be fair the original post, this is not how trades work. This call trade lineage we've had a talk about this on the Twins board. Cam, monster, Jason and Lst we were talking about how the trade for chuck knoblauch still effects the Twins till this day. The original trade is Butler for Markkanen, LaVine and Dunn. Now the trade lives on through Covington Saric and whoever our 2nd round pick will be. Then if we trade Any of those guys the trade lives through them. It's pretty cool when you look at trade trees chuck knoblauch is very good I wish I could find the thread but it was from a year or two ago.

[kekgeek]

If you would of told me when we originally traded for butler that this was going to be the worst case scenario, that we would have to trade him in a year and we ended up with RoCo and Saric. And that is the absolute worst case scenario, I would still do the butler trade for lavine/dunn/#7 100 out of 100 times.

In the end it didn't work out, but I will never blame a coach/gm for going for it when there is legit logic behind it. Because of so many factors (thibs coaching/ jimmy is an ass/lack of development of Wiggins and towns, Patton pick a 0) it didn't work out but still a gamble I would take every time, especially now knowing the worst case scenario

[Monster]

Isnt knight only signed for this and next year? If would likely be a 2 year plan anyways. Tank, get zion and your 4 1sts. By next year knight is an expiring which becomes a valuable trade chip all of a sudden. Either let him expire to make a big signing in 2020 or deal him for something good for his expiring. By then hopefully gs dynasty is over. Stars win in this league. Teams with covingtons and sarics of the world end up at end of lottery or sneak into playoffs. Think we have had our fill of teams filled with role players. Last time we had 3 legitimate stars was casell sprewell and garnett.

One last point that occurred to me a few hours ago is that one of the reasons this team hasn't won is BECAUSE it didn't have role players or in some parts of the roster worthwhile players. Wes Johnson's floor was supposed to be sort of a Covington type. He was basically a bust. He is now a guy that stays on NBA rosters because he has physical tools and actually is an above average wing defender. Derrick Williams is out of the league. Flynnout of the league Ellington was traded for Cunningham and he was at least a legit rotation player but then there was a problem there which seems to be par for the course. One reason why Love left was the team just didn't end up with much out of their draft picks. Bazz is now out of the league and Dieng is wildly overpaid but looks to being at least useful again. This team hasn't always found the stud players and has passed on some of them but it's also failed to have legit competent players from draft picks and in some cases FA moves. If Covington and Saric are even average NBA starters that's something to help propel this team towards being relevant. There should be some value in that. Derrick Williams was supposed to be a no-brained pick. Even the guys like Q who wasn't sold on his stardom (I joined him in his thinking) were not expecting him to basically not be good at much of anything and flame out of the league. Getting legit worthwhile players has value towards building a good team and keeping guys here.

[Monster]

It's weird following the league not watching to see how teams are doing that might trade for Butler. It might take a while to shake that feeling when looking at box scores. I need to be back to looking at wins and losses for...at least point for a possible playoff run. I'm not ready to go back to looking at draft pick placement yet.

[Monster]

FWIW Wolfson said in his last podcast he got the sense that Fultz was available for the Wolves if they wanted him in a Sixers deal. He said from what he has gather the Wolves got the players they wanted. I saw a video of one of Fultz FTs from last night it was REALLY bad. Especially considering how much he is gonna be making as a #1 overall pick...it probably made sense to pass. The Dunc'd On Guys said they think the Aixers should try and shop him hard right now and hope to get something back. Thorpe said on Wolfson's podcast that he didn't want to judge too much since he doesn't know the situation with Fultz including his healthy but he said the shooting is obviously a concern and he said he doesn't look explosive at all either.

[TheFuture]

So I do like this trade considering the position we were in, but I can't help but find it hilarious that Thibs essentially traded Butler, LaVine, Dunn (his #5 pick after 1 year), a #7 pick, Patton (his #17 pick after 1 year) for Covington, Saric, Bayless, and a 2nd.

If that's not terms for firing ( on top of our on court display ) I'm not sure what is.

That wasn't the trade.

He traded lavine, dunn, and mark for covington, saric, bayless, 2nd rounder, 1 year of playoffs, and 1 year of headaches.

Covington is still the best player in the deal.

I guess that's a fair way to look at it too, though you are forgetting the #17 pick in Patton.

Personally, I'd take LaVine and Markannen over the long haul, especially with the way the league keeps trying to diminish defense. The spacing on that team would be unreal.

You're trying way too hard to make Thibs look like he wasted assets here. Your first post wasn't even remotely close to a realistic view of what assets were traded for what. And then kek accurately laid out what was essentially swapped over the course of two years, and you still came back with "you're forgetting the 17th pick" when the Wolves never would have had that pick to begin with. That pick was a byproduct of giving up LaVine, Dunn, and Markkanen.

It's essentially LaVine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Covington, Saric, Bayless, and a 2nd-round pick. And depending on your individual opinion of each player, that will determine whether it's hilarious and grounds for firing or relatively close to even value, or exceeding, and worthy of some sort of praise aside from the chaos and slander that came with it.

PS: One could argue that Covington (36.9% 3P in 17-18) and Saric (39.3% 3P) are better floor spacers than LaVine (34.1% 3P) and Markkanen (36.2% 3P), but whatever floats your boat.

I don't understand why you're so adamant about defending Thibs.

He has not been good here.

As for the assets, do we have any of those I listed on our team? No, they were all moved for what we do have on our team.

Roco and Saric were spacing for Simmons and Embiid. A bit better combo than our two young ones. We'll see if they keep it up. Meanwhile Markannen has been out and LaVine is looking great. Over the long haul, I'll take the LaVine and Markannen.

To be fair the original post, this is not how trades work. This call trade lineage we've had a talk about this on the Twins board. Cam, monster, Jason and Lst we were talking about how the trade for chuck knoblauch still effects the Twins till this day. The original trade is Butler for Markkanen, LaVine and Dunn. Now the trade lives on through Covington Saric and whoever our 2nd round pick will be. Then if we trade Any of those guys the trade lives through them. It's pretty cool when you look at trade trees chuck knoblauch is very good I wish I could find the thread but it was from a year or two ago.

The difference being 1.5 years vs. However many.

Thibs/Taylor gave us something that he and Taylor decided (one half knew - I.e. not signing off on trading Wiggs or maxing Jimmy because of Lux Tax) they wouldn't sustain. None of the trades were terrible, I just find the totality of it all, and how our fanbase rationalizes it, hilarious.

An accumulation of a top 15 player, a #5 pick, a #13 pick, a #7 pick, and a #17 pick turned into a #12 pick? (saric), an undrafted player in Roco, an expiring end of the bench pg in Bayless, and a 2nd rounder.

If That isn't a terrible management of assets, then I'm unsure what is.

P.S. I'm glad the Jimmy ordeal is done and I think Roco and Saric are good players and fit well on this team. I just cannot rationalize the entire picture as being acceptable like some of you seem to be able to.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

FWIW Wolfson said in his last podcast he got the sense that Fultz was available for the Wolves if they wanted him in a Sixers deal. He said from what he has gather the Wolves got the players they wanted. I saw a video of one of Fultz FTs from last night it was REALLY bad. Especially considering how much he is gonna be making as a #1 overall pick...it probably made sense to pass. The Dunc'd On Guys said they think the Aixers should try and shop him hard right now and hope to get something back. Thorpe said on Wolfson's podcast that he didn't want to judge too much since he doesn't know the situation with Fultz including his healthy but he said the shooting is obviously a concern and he said he doesn't look explosive at all either.

He also fired his shooting coach after a falling out. He looks like he has the same mental block Bennett had. Just completely forgot how to play basketball.

[TheFuture]

FWIW Wolfson said in his last podcast he got the sense that Fultz was available for the Wolves if they wanted him in a Sixers deal. He said from what he has gather the Wolves got the players they wanted. I saw a video of one of Fultz FTs from last night it was REALLY bad. Especially considering how much he is gonna be making as a #1 overall pick...it probably made sense to pass. The Dunc'd On Guys said they think the Aixers should try and shop him hard right now and hope to get something back. Thorpe said on Wolfson's podcast that he didn't want to judge too much since he doesn't know the situation with Fultz including his healthy but he said the shooting is obviously a concern and he said he doesn't look explosive at all either.

He also fired his shooting coach after a falling out. He looks like he has the same mental block Bennett had. Just completely forgot how to play basketball.

Yeah, that free throw was terrible. Damn near unexplainable.

People say the yips, but I'd lean towards that he has serious mental health issues.

I hope he is able to figure it all out and finds a way to prosper.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

FWIW Wolfson said in his last podcast he got the sense that Fultz was available for the Wolves if they wanted him in a Sixers deal. He said from what he has gather the Wolves got the players they wanted. I saw a video of one of Fultz FTs from last night it was REALLY bad. Especially considering how much he is gonna be making as a #1 overall pick...it probably made sense to pass. The Dunc'd On Guys said they think the Aixers should try and shop him hard right now and hope to get something back. Thorpe said on Wolfson's podcast that he didn't want to judge too much since he doesn't know the situation with Fultz including his healthy but he said the shooting is obviously a concern and he said he doesn't look explosive at all either.

He also fired his shooting coach after a falling out. He looks like he has the same mental block Bennett had. Just completely forgot how to play basketball.

FWIW Wolfson said in his last podcast he got the sense that Fultz was available for the Wolves if they wanted him in a Sixers deal. He said from what he has gather the Wolves got the players they wanted. I saw a video of one of Fultz FTs from last night it was REALLY bad. Especially considering how much he is gonna be making as a #1 overall pick...it probably made sense to pass. The Dunc'd On Guys said they think the Aixers should try and shop him hard right now and hope to get something back. Thorpe said on Wolfson's podcast that he didn't want to judge too much since he doesn't know the situation with Fultz including his healthy but he said the shooting is obviously a concern and he said he doesn't look explosive at all either.

He also fired his shooting coach after a falling out. He looks like he has the same mental block Bennett had. Just completely forgot how to play basketball.

Yeah, that free throw was terrible. Damn near unexplainable.

People say the yips, but I'd lean towards that he has serious mental health issues.

I hope he is able to figure it all out and finds a way to prosper.

Fultz has bigger issues than his shooting. He's either got something physically wrong with him or he is feeling an immense amount of mental stress and his body cant cope.

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