Wolves fan commiserate here!
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https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25161
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:FNG wrote:I don't know if there has ever been an NBA player like Zach LaVine, or if there will ever be anyone like him. I know he is much maligned here for his defense and consistently negative impact on his team, but he may have taken his futility to a new level last night. His line score didn't seem mathematically probably, and I actually thought it might have been a misprint on ESPN until I checked other sources. But it's true. Zach put up an impressive 35/7/6 last night. But he was also the cornerstone of an epic 4th quarter collapse...the Bulls were up 10 with 1:47 to go...and somehow managed an again team-worst -14 despite those offensive stats! In the final 2 minutes, Zach missed his only 2 shots, turned the ball over once, and played his usual indifferent defense. Maybe he was exhausted (he did play 43 minutes). But I've given up making excuses for him because you just can't ignore how he consistently puts up poor on/off numbers. Last night was just an extreme example of what has been an unfortunate career trend for Zach.
DeRozan and DLO (gulp) are the two other players I can think of that are comparable.
DeRozan is in his 12th season. In 11 of those seasons, his team plays better with him OFF the court. How does one reconcile this with his other advanced stats which generally point to him being pretty good!?
DLO is also well on his way to a LaVine/DeRozan type of career. Super skilled player that does some awesome things not a lot of players can do in terms of shot-making and passing, yet has only one season where his team wasn't better off with him not playing (that was his all-star year in Brooklyn).
Teams with DLO, DeRozan, and LaVine types will win when they realize these guys are role players. They score points and that is their main value. They are basically Louis Williams masquerading as overpaid lead guards.
Considering how many times DeRozan's teams have won 45+ or even 50+ games... with him leading the team in minutes... just imagine how much better they'd have been if his coaches weren't so stupid playing him all the time.
Ahem.
There's value in that stat... but far too much noise if the conclusion becomes DeRozan = Lou Wiliams or D. Russell.
11 out of 12 seasons on two different teams Abe. You can't tell me it's because every single season he had such awesome backups. And why is it that Kyle Lowry, one of the guys he started with a bunch of years in Toronto had positive net on/off ratings? If the bench was so great, why did it consistently not do as well when Lowry sat down? And typically PG depth is better than wing depth in the NBA.
Now he's in San Antonio and the exact same thing is happening.
I guess my main point is that these types of players are not worth the money they get paid.
Don't know the reason... any more than the exact reason why DeRozan led so many playoff teams in minutes for the better part of a decade.
Yet you want us to believe that multiple coaches made a mistake because DeRozan was actively making his teams worse when he played.
PorkChop wrote:I read an article suggesting a trade of Lou William and a salary filler for Rubio. Does this make any kind of sense? And no it's not becuz of my opinion of Rubio. Simply something I read.
Q12543 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:FNG wrote:I don't know if there has ever been an NBA player like Zach LaVine, or if there will ever be anyone like him. I know he is much maligned here for his defense and consistently negative impact on his team, but he may have taken his futility to a new level last night. His line score didn't seem mathematically probably, and I actually thought it might have been a misprint on ESPN until I checked other sources. But it's true. Zach put up an impressive 35/7/6 last night. But he was also the cornerstone of an epic 4th quarter collapse...the Bulls were up 10 with 1:47 to go...and somehow managed an again team-worst -14 despite those offensive stats! In the final 2 minutes, Zach missed his only 2 shots, turned the ball over once, and played his usual indifferent defense. Maybe he was exhausted (he did play 43 minutes). But I've given up making excuses for him because you just can't ignore how he consistently puts up poor on/off numbers. Last night was just an extreme example of what has been an unfortunate career trend for Zach.
DeRozan and DLO (gulp) are the two other players I can think of that are comparable.
DeRozan is in his 12th season. In 11 of those seasons, his team plays better with him OFF the court. How does one reconcile this with his other advanced stats which generally point to him being pretty good!?
DLO is also well on his way to a LaVine/DeRozan type of career. Super skilled player that does some awesome things not a lot of players can do in terms of shot-making and passing, yet has only one season where his team wasn't better off with him not playing (that was his all-star year in Brooklyn).
Teams with DLO, DeRozan, and LaVine types will win when they realize these guys are role players. They score points and that is their main value. They are basically Louis Williams masquerading as overpaid lead guards.
Considering how many times DeRozan's teams have won 45+ or even 50+ games... with him leading the team in minutes... just imagine how much better they'd have been if his coaches weren't so stupid playing him all the time.
Ahem.
There's value in that stat... but far too much noise if the conclusion becomes DeRozan = Lou Wiliams or D. Russell.
11 out of 12 seasons on two different teams Abe. You can't tell me it's because every single season he had such awesome backups. And why is it that Kyle Lowry, one of the guys he started with a bunch of years in Toronto had positive net on/off ratings? If the bench was so great, why did it consistently not do as well when Lowry sat down? And typically PG depth is better than wing depth in the NBA.
Now he's in San Antonio and the exact same thing is happening.
I guess my main point is that these types of players are not worth the money they get paid.
Don't know the reason... any more than the exact reason why DeRozan led so many playoff teams in minutes for the better part of a decade.
Yet you want us to believe that multiple coaches made a mistake because DeRozan was actively making his teams worse when he played.
No, you are exaggerating what I'm trying to say. I'm stating a fact that his team has done better with him off the court than on for 11 out of 12 seasons. What I didn't say is that if you permanently benched him and replaced him in the starting lineup with "random replacement player X", his team would have been better off.
What I am positing is that the return on investment with the $27M per year DeMar DeRozan as your starting shooting guard is pretty weak. It's basically a misallocation of resources to give big $ to the likes of DeRozan, LaVine, and DLO. That doesn't mean they are bad players in an absolute sense, but they do a lot less to impact winning than a lot of players making much less.
kekgeek1 wrote:Sounds like Kevin Porter Jr will be cut in the upcoming days. He is super talented but another head case. Had off the court issues with assault and had a physical altercation this week involving food when the Cavs gave Tauren Prince his locker
kekgeek1 wrote:The #Knicks currently have the No. 1 Defense in the #NBA
-1st in Scoring Defense (102.7 ppg)
-1st in Def FG% (43.3%)
-1st in Def 3P% (31.2%) https://t.co/d1IVrrLNGS
Q12543 wrote:[
kekgeek1 wrote:The #Knicks currently have the No. 1 Defense in the #NBA
-1st in Scoring Defense (102.7 ppg)
-1st in Def FG% (43.3%)
-1st in Def 3P% (31.2%) https://t.co/d1IVrrLNGS
Unbelievable. In Thibs two full seasons, the Wolves were 27th in defensive rating both seasons. We know he had a top defense in Chicago too. So what can one conclude by this?