Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I agree Abe, Houston had a golden opportunity to win this game and head back to Houston with an opportunity to close out the series. But they pissed it away. Not sure if the blame falls on Harden, or D'antoni, but running down the clock every possession really put them at a disadvantage.

It has to be on Harden. There is no way Mike told Harden to stand 6 feet off of the three line, avoid picks/not attempt to drive only to jack up a 3 from where he stood for 15 seconds. That was late in the 4th, and his body language (and play) killed his teams chances. Then he did it about 5 more possessions (the standing around).

Did anyone else notice Harden point the finger at Capela after Simmons poked the ball lose the second time? Capela got pulled right after and went to the bench staring down Harden and swearing.

I blame both. I blame the Coach for not figuring out ways to generate good shots besides doing the same thing over and over and over again and I blame Harden for poorly executing.

When you sit there and watched what happened last night, it makes you appreciate the fact we have a couple of options offensively in crunch time, when things inevitably do involve clear outs and iso-ball. Yes, we often resort to the Wiggins isolation at the top of the key, but we also have a big that can create shots and hopefully LaVine gets to that point as well. Then go pick the guy with the best matchup and attack it.

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I agree Abe, Houston had a golden opportunity to win this game and head back to Houston with an opportunity to close out the series. But they pissed it away. Not sure if the blame falls on Harden, or D'antoni, but running down the clock every possession really put them at a disadvantage.

It has to be on Harden. There is no way Mike told Harden to stand 6 feet off of the three line, avoid picks/not attempt to drive only to jack up a 3 from where he stood for 15 seconds. That was late in the 4th, and his body language (and play) killed his teams chances. Then he did it about 5 more possessions (the standing around).

Did anyone else notice Harden point the finger at Capela after Simmons poked the ball lose the second time? Capela got pulled right after and went to the bench staring down Harden and swearing.

Harden is immensely talented. But there are warning signs. Let's not forget...

1) He got McHale fired.
2) His greatest postseason triumph happened in a game he shot 5 - 20 fg and was going through the motions like he lost his puppy while being throttled by the Clippers... until Corey Brewer and Josh Smith led an amazing 51 - 20 run to end the game.

James Harden was on the bench for that entire season-saving run.

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I agree Abe, Houston had a golden opportunity to win this game and head back to Houston with an opportunity to close out the series. But they pissed it away. Not sure if the blame falls on Harden, or D'antoni, but running down the clock every possession really put them at a disadvantage.

It has to be on Harden. There is no way Mike told Harden to stand 6 feet off of the three line, avoid picks/not attempt to drive only to jack up a 3 from where he stood for 15 seconds. That was late in the 4th, and his body language (and play) killed his teams chances. Then he did it about 5 more possessions (the standing around).

Did anyone else notice Harden point the finger at Capela after Simmons poked the ball lose the second time? Capela got pulled right after and went to the bench staring down Harden and swearing.

I blame both. I blame the Coach for not figuring out ways to generate good shots besides doing the same thing over and over and over again and I blame Harden for poorly executing.

When you sit there and watched what happened last night, it makes you appreciate the fact we have a couple of options offensively in crunch time, when things inevitably do involve clear outs and iso-ball. Yes, we often resort to the Wiggins isolation at the top of the key, but we also have a big that can create shots and hopefully LaVine gets to that point as well. Then go pick the guy with the best matchup and attack it.

To be fair, Eric Gordon can create a bit. And as Reggie Miller repeatedly mentioned, the Rockets have several guys who can create off the bounce to varying degrees... including Lou Williams, Beverley and even Ariza a bit.

But when the big dog, Harden, has the superstar clout to eat 1st, 2nd and 3rd... a team can get into those types of situations.

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I agree Abe, Houston had a golden opportunity to win this game and head back to Houston with an opportunity to close out the series. But they pissed it away. Not sure if the blame falls on Harden, or D'antoni, but running down the clock every possession really put them at a disadvantage.

It has to be on Harden. There is no way Mike told Harden to stand 6 feet off of the three line, avoid picks/not attempt to drive only to jack up a 3 from where he stood for 15 seconds. That was late in the 4th, and his body language (and play) killed his teams chances. Then he did it about 5 more possessions (the standing around).

Did anyone else notice Harden point the finger at Capela after Simmons poked the ball lose the second time? Capela got pulled right after and went to the bench staring down Harden and swearing.

I blame both. I blame the Coach for not figuring out ways to generate good shots besides doing the same thing over and over and over again and I blame Harden for poorly executing.

When you sit there and watched what happened last night, it makes you appreciate the fact we have a couple of options offensively in crunch time, when things inevitably do involve clear outs and iso-ball. Yes, we often resort to the Wiggins isolation at the top of the key, but we also have a big that can create shots and hopefully LaVine gets to that point as well. Then go pick the guy with the best matchup and attack it.

The only thing I blame on Mike is his 7 man rotation. He definitely is not the best half-court coach, but he isn't some dummy.

If you're an MVP, then you try to run the play and if it doesn't work out then you improvise and make the right play. You don't get frustrated and jack up a contested 3pter 6 feet off the line, and then blame teammates.

To me, Harden was still looking for the fouls late in the game when it's been proven the NBA is taking the feedback about him and officiating him differently.


As for your point on the wolves, I couldn't help but feel the same way. Better yet, we seem to have a core that will allow the other to take on that best matchup. That's why I've come to respect this last season of Thibs pushing Wiggins in the late game. If we needed two points to win, KAT was the obvious choice this year, but in the playoffs you need more than one capable player in that position. The long con by Thibs..

I blame D'antoni. He is so rigid in his system and seems to blame everyone else for his failure. Minor adjustments could have won the series already. Yes 3 pts are more than 2, but it has been at the cost of good shots on multiple occasions, especially when it matters most. Surprise, surprise, a D'antoni teams chokes at crunch time when teams flip to iso ball. It's an old story with him.

thedoper wrote:I blame D'antoni. He is so rigid in his system and seems to blame everyone else for his failure. Minor adjustments could have won the series already. Yes 3 pts are more than 2, but it has been at the cost of good shots on multiple occasions, especially when it matters most. Surprise, surprise, a D'antoni teams chokes at crunch time when teams flip to iso ball. It's an old story with him.

I disagree.

I've written this before... and it's a well-known axiom in the NBA... SUPERSTAR PLAYERS WIN GAMES! The moment 50 - 65-year-old guys in suits have more influence on a game than a leading MVP candidate... I'm done watching my favorite sport. Forever.

D'Antoni isn't forcing Ryan Anderson to shoot a three pointer on a 4-on-1 fast break (it went in). And he's not forcing the guy who's supposed to set the screen to Harden to have a brain fart and forget. And he's not forcing Harden to shrug and launch a contested three instead. He's not forcing Harden to dance and shoot three pointers when Lamarcus Aldridge switches on to him. He's not the reason Harden was stripped from behind 2x in OT.

Coaching matters. But players matter more. SO MUCH MORE. That being said, I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth now... Popovich is amazing. (To be fair though... it's not like he forced Danny Green to drive and get his first "and 1" of the entire season late in OT.)



[Note: As an ardent "fan" of D'Antoni's Suns teams... I don't remember a time his team choked in the playoffs. I always felt like they lost to better teams or while giving legit effort and performances in some tough situations with some shoddy luck.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I blame D'antoni. He is so rigid in his system and seems to blame everyone else for his failure. Minor adjustments could have won the series already. Yes 3 pts are more than 2, but it has been at the cost of good shots on multiple occasions, especially when it matters most. Surprise, surprise, a D'antoni teams chokes at crunch time when teams flip to iso ball. It's an old story with him.

I disagree.

I've written this before... and it's a well-known axiom in the NBA... SUPERSTAR PLAYERS WIN GAMES! The moment 50 - 65-year-old guys in suits have more influence on a game than a leading MVP candidate... I'm done watching my favorite sport. Forever.

D'Antoni isn't forcing Ryan Anderson to shoot a three pointer on a 4-on-1 fast break (it went in). And he's not forcing the guy who's supposed to set the screen to Harden to have a brain fart and forget. And he's not forcing Harden to shrug and launch a contested three instead. He's not forcing Harden to dance and shoot three pointers when Lamarcus Aldridge switches on to him. He's not the reason Harden was stripped from behind 2x in OT.

Coaching matters. But players matter more. SO MUCH MORE. That being said, I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth now... Popovich is amazing. (To be fair though... it's not like he forced Danny Green to drive and get his first "and 1" of the entire season late in OT.)



[Note: As an ardent "fan" of D'Antoni's Suns teams... I don't remember a time his team choked in the playoffs. I always felt like they lost to better teams or while giving legit effort and performances in some tough situations with some shoddy luck.]

Great post. Total agreeance here.

Popovich is such a great coach. I sat up in my couch after many late misses by the rockets expecting a break in action, as I'm accustomed to by most NBA coaching. Yet, not with Pop. He just let it play out and it worked; this was all while his star was kept on the bench. The way he builds up a team with confidence/trust while demanding the utmost respect is unbelievable.


By the way weren't the Spurs his kryptonite in Phoenix as well? Not like they weren't everyone else's kryptonite in that time period as well..

Abe, D'Antoni isn't out there taking the shots or making the mistakes, but the coaching staff literally tracks how many mid-range shots they take and it's considered damn near a crime to take one. On the one hand, it's led to their success this season. On the other hand, it's now potentially hamstringing them in the playoffs.

Q12543 wrote:Abe, D'Antoni isn't out there taking the shots or making the mistakes, but the coaching staff literally tracks how many mid-range shots they take and it's considered damn near a crime to take one. On the one hand, it's led to their success this season. On the other hand, it's now potentially hamstringing them in the playoffs.

Yep. Double-edged sword.

And it might extend beyond D'Antonti. Remember, the avoid the mid-range mantra was largely in place before D'Antoni arrived. It's been ingrained throughout the entire organization and taken to ridiculous lengths at the D League level.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I blame D'antoni. He is so rigid in his system and seems to blame everyone else for his failure. Minor adjustments could have won the series already. Yes 3 pts are more than 2, but it has been at the cost of good shots on multiple occasions, especially when it matters most. Surprise, surprise, a D'antoni teams chokes at crunch time when teams flip to iso ball. It's an old story with him.

I disagree.

I've written this before... and it's a well-known axiom in the NBA... SUPERSTAR PLAYERS WIN GAMES! The moment 50 - 65-year-old guys in suits have more influence on a game than a leading MVP candidate... I'm done watching my favorite sport. Forever.

D'Antoni isn't forcing Ryan Anderson to shoot a three pointer on a 4-on-1 fast break (it went in). And he's not forcing the guy who's supposed to set the screen to Harden to have a brain fart and forget. And he's not forcing Harden to shrug and launch a contested three instead. He's not forcing Harden to dance and shoot three pointers when Lamarcus Aldridge switches on to him. He's not the reason Harden was stripped from behind 2x in OT.

Coaching matters. But players matter more. SO MUCH MORE. That being said, I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth now... Popovich is amazing. (To be fair though... it's not like he forced Danny Green to drive and get his first "and 1" of the entire season late in OT.)



[Note: As an ardent "fan" of D'Antoni's Suns teams... I don't remember a time his team choked in the playoffs. I always felt like they lost to better teams or while giving legit effort and performances in some tough situations with some shoddy luck.]

Houston's superstar has taken the highest % of 3pt shots in his career 49% and the lowest percentage of midrange 16+ feet 5% in his career since his second season when he had a different role (more spot up on those early OKC teams). Those numbers have changed to 51% and 2% in this playoffs. Last 3 playoffs 30% of Harden's shots were from 10ft-3pt line. This year they are 7%. Did he come to this revelation on his own?

Yes superstars win games, and coaches give them the system and the personnel decisions through substitutions and rest to do that. I think D'antoni preaches a system that has regular season sucess and isn't built for the playoffs. As for the Suns they are fond to remember, I'm sure there is little that I can do to convince you as you were a fan. There is a website that list historical clutch time stats.

http://www.nbaminer.com/clutch-time-stats/

Not many Suns on the top end in the playoffs even in their greatest runs, call it bad luck or better opponents I guess. Whatever happened they couldn't deliver when it mattered.

I'm not saying coaches should be analyzed to the depths of the NFL for instance. But coaches there get fired for bad clock management. D'antoni rejects varying his pace of play religiously.