TheFuture wrote:Has anybody considered that LeBron simply may not get along with Kevin Love, or just decided he did not want him there. I believe if LeBron wanted to play with Love, then Love was going to CLE the day of or after LeBron decided to return home. Very slim chance of it happening now, in my opinion.
Right now, I'd rather cut a deal with Boston. Smart, Olynyk, Bass, Bogans and 3 1st rounders would be good for me. I think Ainge would pay that and he makes the decision in BOS.
LeBron now makes the decisions in CLE.
I've thought about that, master, but dismissed it. The one time LeBron played with Love was in the Olympics, and he had to have noticed what a key Love was to that gold medal. Love was somewhat of an afterthought in the early games, but his strong rebounding led to more time on the court, and eventually he earned regular minutes in important spots. I'm sure that LBJ recognizes that Love is the kind of player who will do the dirty work, and I think the Cavs need that. Doesn't look like it's going to happen though.
With Gasol signing, the Bulls are out of the running for Love. The Rockets are out because their one trade chip, Parsons, is either going to Dallas or locked up with the Rockets into December under the CBA. The recent emphatic statement from Blatz makes it clear that Wiggins will not be offered for Love, which means the Cavs are out of the running. At this point I think it's nearly certain that the Warriors will remain unwilling to put Klay Thompson on the table, which means the Warriors are out of the running.
So who's left? Not many. Based on reports, the Celtics seem to be the only team serious about pursuing Love. I suppose it's possible that the Suns and Nuggets are interested, but Love is unlikely to commit long term to either one so I don't see either of those two teams as a credible option.
So we have only one suitor left -- the Celtics. That's not much leverage. If Boston offers Olynyk, Smart, Green and picks, I'd take it. But I don't think Flip will.
I remember saying early on that Flip was never serious about his coaching search because he always intended to appoint himself. I believe events since then have borne that out. I sense something similar with the Love situation. We'll never know exactly what offers for Love have been made. And Love has made it difficult for Flip by being so public about his intent to leave and by limiting the teams to which he's willing to commit. Yet, I think keeping Love has always been Flip's first preference just as Flip was Flip's first choice for the head coaching position. I can't say at this point that Flip has necessarily been wrong on either decision. Time will tell. But get ready for a Wolves team with Kevin Love with all the accompanying talent AND baggage he brings.
Lip, I think Flip would be totally wrong if he turned down an acceptable offer for Love. Kevin's lack of class and distance from his team this spring, combined with comments by local sportswriters about the dislike Love's teammates have for him, make his return an impossible situation. You're right that we may never know what was actually offered, but we're certainly getting strong suggestions that the offers are basically crap, which is the position I have held since the start of this process. We know that the Cavs won't include Wiggins, we know GS won't include Thompson...all despite the prevailing opinion on this board that teams are drooling over getting Love and Flip is holding all the leverage. Just not true.
The fact of the matter is that Love is not a winner...he has demonstrated that clearly as the star of a habitual non-playoff team, and GM's around the league know that. They're just not going to give up much for a guy like Love unless they are desperate, and Love made it clear he wouldn't re-sign with a team that was desperate (Sacramento, for example).
I think Flip is playing this correctly, but I just don't think he has many options. I'm gravitating toward a position of taking best deal offered by season start, even if it isn't close to what we want, just to get this guy out of here. If he would say anything...ANYTHING...good about the Wolves, rather than referring to them in the third person, I could change my mind. But Kevin won't do this. He has checked out completely, and so have I.
Personally, I'm in favor of keeping the best power forward in the league and a top-10 player in the NBA rather than kick him out the door for a shitty trade package. If he walks, he walks and we get some cap space and maybe throw it at Klay Thompson or some other young player on the market. More than likely, though, we'll have a S/T opportunity if we want it or we can force those teams interested in him to dump contracts and assets to make room for signing Love, potentially sabotaging their own teams in the process (See: Houston; Bosh).
If Minnesota takes a big stride this season under Flip and cashes in on some of the potential on this team, I can't see Love leaving a playoff team + the extra money. And if he does, then revert to what I said in the previous paragraph.
Man, I wish I could get there, cam. But I just can't get past Love's behavior the past two months. His total silence and attempts to orchestrate a deal to get out can't be sitting well with his teammates. Not to mention his referring to the Wolves in the 3rd person...could he be anymore checked out? They will say all the right things ("this is a business, blah, blah, blah"), but anyone who has played team sports knows that chemistry is a vital component of success, and the chemistry on this team will be crap with Love still there.
Many have commented on the energy in the building during the Wolves' scrimmage last week. I am excited about the energy an enthusiastic coach like Saunders can bring to this club, and I don't want the Love drama to detract from that. I'm still hoping for some deal before the season starts to get a guy out of here who clearly doesn't want to be here, but the league is making it perfectly clear that they just don't value Love very highly. If they did, we would have seen a bona fide offer by now.
LST I am biased towards keeping Love but I think you have bought way too far into what the media has said. Love has never come out and said publically that he wants out. I'm sure he is planning to opt out it makes sense we all know that and that's why he has kept his silence and knows its very possible he gets traded if Flip gets a great offer. There has been rampit speculation here and all over the league about the Love situation but we just don't know where its really at. You may be right with everything you say and its so bad he can't come back but I just don't buy its that far. So much of what's being reported when it comes to Love is obviously incorrect. I'd rather give it a go with a guy that may be one of the top player in the game than trade him for what ends up being Junk. Its up to Flip and the coaching staff to make some magic happen.
A lot of good points being made here guys. I have always maintained that the best trade partner for us was Boston. I have no idea what they are willing to give up, but we continue to hear that Ainge is trying to put together an acceptable package. With all the #1 picks they have, it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a package that would satisfy me. I know Flip doesn't want to tear the whole thing down, but I don't think he has to. We have some good players, and the #1's would allow us to add to it every year. Right now we are stuck fighting for low seed and quick exit from the playoffs.
Fuck Cleveland (who should have traded for Love the minute Lebron committed), Fuck GS (who might be smart to hold onto Thompson), and fuck anyone else trying to get Love for pennies on the dollar. I have a lot of respect for Flip who seems to be playing this very well. I suggest he play the Celtics some more and get maximum value in a deal with them. Then we can all hope Love breaks his hand fails miserably in a Celtics uniform.
This whole situation has turned into a giant shit-show with Love starring as King Turd, but I have to say if Flip doesn't find an offer he likes (i.e. Wiggins, Klay, or a really good Bulls package, etc.) then I guess I'd rather see them roll the dice at the trade deadline. Plus even though I think it will end very badly, I kind of want to see Love deal with the situation he has created.
But I still have a hard time believing the Cavs covet the potential of 19 year old Wiggins more than a proven Love in his prime. It just makes no sense to me. With Golden State I can at least understand that they don't want to part with Klay.
Cool. I'm on board with the thoughts in your post, and agree that Boston is the best remaining trade partner with Wiggins off the table. I wouldn't even need Smart, who if you watch his workout videos and his SL performance, makes Ricky Rubio look like Reggie Miller in shooting. On the other hand, the Nets' picks they own are very attractive. To get rid of Love, it would only take Olynyk, Thornton (expiring) and two first rounders for me. I'm not sure how long Boston has to wait before trading Thornton, but I would take that deal. It rids us of a player who clearly doesn't want to be here, and gives us a player Flip likes, some upside with the picks, and cap space in 2015-6. I also like the idea of Love going to Boston, because I see them as easily behind the Cavs, Pacers and Bulls for starters, and maybe even Washington and Toronto, especially if either Rondo or Love goes down with another injury. I don't want to see Love on a powerhouse. The vindictive side of me wants him to be unhappy.
Misty, I have to admit that I'm also curious to see how Love would handle the shit storm he has created if he returns next year, but it also will be painful for us long-suffering fans...better to move on and leave the unfortunate and unsuccessful Love saga behind us. But I don't agree with your surprise that the Cavs won't trade Wiggins for Love, although I recognize that is the majority opinion here. First, I don't think you are framing the trade correctly. I think Cleveland would accept a straight-up Wiggins/Love deal if the numbers worked. It's more that the other pieces needed to balance the trade are too much. Waiters, Bennett and TT are each top 4 picks, and the Cavs' fans and Blatt are excited about the potential of them plus Wiggins and LeBron. Secondly, as I have said repeatedly, it's clear that the league doesn't value Love like we do. they acknowledge the incredible scoring/rebounding stats, but they also are well aware of his inability to get to the playoffs and the fact that his first NBA coach calls him a jackass. And that gives them pause.
