Minnesota Sports Forum

The sad truth is if wiggins and towns really did care about winning they wouldnt want to see butler getting traded. I mean do they really think they can bring us to the playoffs and then some with just wiggins and towns. Only reason they are salty is because butler took some shots away from them. Kat and butler just dont have that conpetetive gene in them.

I have only watched the Clips of Butler's sit down, but...honestly he is putting on a heck of a show. I'm not saying Town sand Wiggins are some great players (Towns will be) but Jimmy is playin people. Ive seen this type of thing where people show up and tell it straight and then go out and do mostly the same stuff they did before that got themselves in trouble again. If you aren't a vet and you don't do what Jimmy wants the way he wants it...thats not good enough for him.

People want Towns and Wiggins to step up and say something? I get where you are coming from. Yeah maybe both are some version of soft but NOOOOOO. You want them to engage with Jimmy Butler and have him humiliate them? Butler seems to be a person that thrives on conflict. I do not think it would be wise to do that if thats not your thing. Do you want them to start ripping on a player like Butler who does play his ass off and became one of the best players in the league even if he is acting like an ass? no. Probably the best thing they can do is keep their mouth shut especially since this franchise still needs to trade him.

Also despite this looking like a dumpster fire....Jimmy did show up and his comments that I saw makes it sound like its done, btu he also said all kinds of stuff about Wiggins and how "he knows him" and how he thinks it could be fixed but he doesn't think it will be. It did leave the door open a little bit...ok not much but idk there could still actually be some leverage salvaged yet. Also like I think I said before this stuff by Jimmy might be something that gets some people going like a Pat Riley.

A team built around Butler is only going to go so far. That might be the same thing with Towns we don't know yet. They need to trade Butler and let things fall where they may.

crazysauce wrote:The sad truth is if wiggins and towns really did care about winning they wouldnt want to see butler getting traded. I mean do they really think they can bring us to the playoffs and then some with just wiggins and towns. Only reason they are salty is because butler took some shots away from them. Kat and butler just dont have that conpetetive gene in them.

I don't think it has anything to do with shots. Jimmy is an intense guy (and an asshole) and I don't think either KAT nor Wiggins has ever really been challenged their entire lives. Having Jimmy and Thibs come in and tell them they ain't all that has been very jarring to their entitled egos.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:First of all, Jimmy is not a leader and a winner. He's actually a loser and that has been demonstrated time and time again. He didn't step up in the playoffs last year, then checked out on his own flight after the series. His circle of friends are a bunch of thugs, much like he tries to be. He divides rather than rally his team and teammates. He's arrogant to the point he has no idea how good he really is. He sees himself as Charles Barkley, whereas he's a lot closer to Draymond Green, just without the great team around him. Go ahead and applaud him for his childish, selfish display today. I'm not going to.

And regarding Towns and Wiggins, maybe the problem isn't softness. Maybe they just aren't very good. The history of the league is littered with great athletes who weren't great players. Every draft has this type of player that completely busts. Towns and Wiggins aren't busts, but maybe they're not capable of elevating a team. Maybe they are complimentary players whose draft status completely overshadows what they really are. Maybe they just need a different coach to put them in a position to win. I mean Wig was better as a rookie wasn't he?

The whole mess is a joke. And it may make you feel better to get behind one side or the other, but nothing is good about this franchise right now. Not the owner, not the coach, not Butler, not Towns and Wiggins. The whole thing stinks and is an embarrassment.

I'm not a fan of the main outburst where he was shouting at management and Thibs, but the way he reportedly energized practice, took bench guys and beat the rest of starters is kinda awesome. The way he challenged KAT is also a bit awesome. It's also unfortunate part is that someone leaked all this publicly and it doesn't sound like it was Butler.

With that said my initial reaction was oh great, it's becoming an even bigger shit show, but then more reports came out and then I saw the interview. All in all, I think that practice was more good than bad.

"I'm not the most talented player on the team. Who is? KAT! Who's the most god gifted player? WIGs! Wig's got the longest arms, biggest hands, can jump the highest, can run the fastest, but who plays the hardest? ME" - Jimmy Butler

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:- Andrew Wiggins is absolutely a bust as far as top overall picks go. He is not a franchise player nor is he even an above average NBA player. Point blank, period.
Why do you always have to look through the lens of his draft position? Other than that i refuse to get in an argument with you over Wiggins
- You can underrate Jimmy Butler all you want to, but the main difference between a 30-win team and contending for the third-seed in the Western Conference last year was the guy from Tomball. His impact is real on both ends of the court and the numbers illustrate this. The guy is a top-10 player in a star-studded league. That's just the truth of it.

You're a beauty. Contending for the 3rd seed, hahahahaha. We made the playoffs by winning the last game of the season in OT. And you know why? Because Butler got hurt like he always does. No availability means less ability. That's the truth. Top 10? Please.

We were 2 games from the 3 seed. We were the clear cut 3rd best team in the West when Jimmy was in the lineup beating everyone below us in the standings contending with us. It's just flat out ignorant to downplay Jimmy's impact and how good we were with him in the lineup. 60% winning percentage with him (3rd best in the conference) and 47% without him (9th or 10th best). It's fine to hate the guy for what he's pulling, but it's absolute bullshit to use the play-in game playoff berth as a reason Jimmy isn't a top 10-15 player. He handled his business on the court and the winning percentage reflects the impact of a top 10-15 player. Add in the fact that this team looks fucking pathetic without him so far this year and it's pretty clear his impact will be missed on this team.

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:- Andrew Wiggins is absolutely a bust as far as top overall picks go. He is not a franchise player nor is he even an above average NBA player. Point blank, period.
Why do you always have to look through the lens of his draft position? Other than that i refuse to get in an argument with you over Wiggins
- You can underrate Jimmy Butler all you want to, but the main difference between a 30-win team and contending for the third-seed in the Western Conference last year was the guy from Tomball. His impact is real on both ends of the court and the numbers illustrate this. The guy is a top-10 player in a star-studded league. That's just the truth of it.

You're a beauty. Contending for the 3rd seed, hahahahaha. We made the playoffs by winning the last game of the season in OT. And you know why? Because Butler got hurt like he always does. No availability means less ability. That's the truth. Top 10? Please.

We were 2 games from the 3 seed. We were the clear cut 3rd best team in the West when Jimmy was in the lineup beating everyone below us in the standings contending with us. It's just flat out ignorant to downplay Jimmy's impact and how good we were with him in the lineup. 60% winning percentage with him (3rd best in the conference) and 47% without him (9th or 10th best). It's fine to hate the guy for what he's pulling, but it's absolute bullshit to use the play-in game playoff berth as a reason Jimmy isn't a top 10-15 player. He handled his business on the court and the winning percentage reflects the impact of a top 10-15 player. Add in the fact that this team looks fucking pathetic without him so far this year and it's pretty clear his impact will be missed on this team.

Don't you think this goes well beyond just Jimmy? I think the key young players have quit of Thibs as he's every bit as intense as Jimmy and they clearly don't like being pushed, at least not to my eyes.

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:- Andrew Wiggins is absolutely a bust as far as top overall picks go. He is not a franchise player nor is he even an above average NBA player. Point blank, period.
Why do you always have to look through the lens of his draft position? Other than that i refuse to get in an argument with you over Wiggins
- You can underrate Jimmy Butler all you want to, but the main difference between a 30-win team and contending for the third-seed in the Western Conference last year was the guy from Tomball. His impact is real on both ends of the court and the numbers illustrate this. The guy is a top-10 player in a star-studded league. That's just the truth of it.

You're a beauty. Contending for the 3rd seed, hahahahaha. We made the playoffs by winning the last game of the season in OT. And you know why? Because Butler got hurt like he always does. No availability means less ability. That's the truth. Top 10? Please.

We were 2 games from the 3 seed. We were the clear cut 3rd best team in the West when Jimmy was in the lineup beating everyone below us in the standings contending with us. It's just flat out ignorant to downplay Jimmy's impact and how good we were with him in the lineup. 60% winning percentage with him (3rd best in the conference) and 47% without him (9th or 10th best). It's fine to hate the guy for what he's pulling, but it's absolute bullshit to use the play-in game playoff berth as a reason Jimmy isn't a top 10-15 player. He handled his business on the court and the winning percentage reflects the impact of a top 10-15 player. Add in the fact that this team looks fucking pathetic without him so far this year and it's pretty clear his impact will be missed on this team.

But, but, but, but. If you're only going to play in 59 games and it's a regular thing for you, you simply cannot be a top 10 player. Elementary math should tell you that.

It's not like I'm saying he's not a good player. He certainly is. But he's a part timer. We were a 38% team before he got here. As you say without him last year we were 47%. Clearly other things were in play besides just Jimmy.

I have a theory about Butler that hadn't really entered my mind in this way before. I think Butler is a rare terrific 2 way player that absolutely plays winning basketball but doesn't really make guys around him better. Oh sure you are better next to him because Butler is a dam good player but you aren't actually better because of things he does regardless of what he said to Rachel Nichols. There were so many times last year he didn't pass to someone else.

Think about it who got better last year with Butler on the Wolves? The last year he was on the Bulls they started playing better after the deal and Rondo was playing like Rondo of old down the stretch. The next year Rondo goes to the Pels and is part of the reason they have success and basically has his image rehabbed. Maybe that wasn't it and everything clicked but it's somethjng to think about.

I've wondered in the back of my mind if Butler and his approach was a reason for some players playing less and I'm not talking about just Wiggins. There is a lot of blame to go around and I didn't want to see it but I do wonder if Butler was part of what made this team less than fun etc.

Both Josh Richardson and Bam Adebayo have big games for the Heat today:

Richardson = 25 points on 9-16 (4-7 from 3), 4 rebounds and 3 assists. Solid.

Adebayo = 26 points on 11-17, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 5 blocks and 3 steals. Woah!

Yes it's only preseason but surely this bumps up there value and give Miami a bit of leverage at bargaining table.

monsterpile wrote:I have a theory about Butler that hadn't really entered my mind in this way before. I think Butler is a rare terrific 2 way player that absolutely plays winning basketball but doesn't really make guys around him better. Oh sure you are better next to him because Butler is a dam good player but you aren't actually better because of things he does regardless of what he said to Rachel Nichols. There were so many times last year he didn't pass to someone else.

Think about it who got better last year with Butler on the Wolves? The last year he was on the Bulls they started playing better after the deal and Rondo was playing like Rondo of old down the stretch. The next year Rondo goes to the Pels and is part of the reason they have success and basically has his image rehabbed. Maybe that wasn't it and everything clicked but it's somethjng to think about.

I've wondered in the back of my mind if Butler and his approach was a reason for some players playing less and I'm not talking about just Wiggins. There is a lot of blame to go around and I didn't want to see it but I do wonder if Butler was part of what made this team less than fun etc.

He's a good basketball player when he's on the court. He plays too much hero ball for my taste, but I could accept the premise he's top 20 when he does in fact play. I'm not sure he plays "winning" basketball, but he's definitely effective, particularly on the defensive end. But he's a terrible teammate and you can't count on him to be there every night.