Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:I'm more interested in what Spielman has done the last 2-3 years than what he did in a trade what 4 years ago?

As for the Cousins deal what was the other options at that time? Should we have kept Teddy? Bradford? Keenum? Signed some other FA? Cousins has cost the Vikings 74 million in cap space these 3 years. That's not outlandish. Some of that money they didn't pay him might be piling up on the next 2 years of cap space but I'm willing to hope those numbers might get lowered somewhat...I can't help being an optimist. Lol

Something to think about. The Vikings had 3 starters from last year's defense play in the Bears game. Everyone knew there was likely to be some turnover on that end but with letting guys go, injuries and Pierce their FA signing opting out...that's a lot.

I think the initial Cousins deal wasn't terrible, it's the extension that sounds like is escalating the next two years which gives us no chance to keep our other FA's.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I'm more interested in what Spielman has done the last 2-3 years than what he did in a trade what 4 years ago?

As for the Cousins deal what was the other options at that time? Should we have kept Teddy? Bradford? Keenum? Signed some other FA? Cousins has cost the Vikings 74 million in cap space these 3 years. That's not outlandish. Some of that money they didn't pay him might be piling up on the next 2 years of cap space but I'm willing to hope those numbers might get lowered somewhat...I can't help being an optimist. Lol

Something to think about. The Vikings had 3 starters from last year's defense play in the Bears game. Everyone knew there was likely to be some turnover on that end but with letting guys go, injuries and Pierce their FA signing opting out...that's a lot.

I think the initial Cousins deal wasn't terrible, it's the extension that sounds like is escalating the next two years which gives us no chance to keep our other FA's.

Fair enough. Like I've been saying for a while will Cousins be willing to give up some money for the team? We will see.

If they hadn't signed that extension I wonder who else they would have had to let go this season? They were able to reduce Cousins cap number by what like 8 million? At this point that doesn't matter because they didn't make the playoffs. We could move on from Cousins or try and get him back for some reasonable number. They may have had to cut 2 worthwhile players if they don't do that extension. The season went relatively poorly anyway but yeah.

That was probably the worst single game defensive performance I've ever seen from the Vikings. They even had two picks. But everytime they punted I knew it was 7 points for NO. Granted if you hadn't seen a game this season you'd be lucky to recognize two players on defense.

Anyways, Trask has to be the 1st round target for the Vikes. What do you guys think about Trask. I don't like Fields and Mac Jones may end up being good but it's so hard for me to gauge a guy when he has such a great OLine and RB along with Devonte.

Trask has size, athleticism, accuracy and arm strength. He's like a more athletic Big Ben.

Cousins has been a whipping boy all season, but he's a top 10 QB this year by any measure and was not the problem yesterday with a 111 QB rating (compared to just 81 for Brees). The problem yesterday was obviously the defense and having so many of our top defenders (3 of our best 4 in my opinion) unavailable was much of the reason. If healthy, I think the defense can be just fine next season. But the offensive line needs a lot of help. I'm not looking for a QB in the draft; instead, I'm using the top 3 picks to try to rebuild this offensive line.

FNG wrote:Cousins has been a whipping boy all season, but he's a top 10 QB this year by any measure and was not the problem yesterday with a 111 QB rating (compared to just 81 for Brees). The problem yesterday was obviously the defense and having so many of our top defenders (3 of our best 4 in my opinion) unavailable was much of the reason. If healthy, I think the defense can be just fine next season. But the offensive line needs a lot of help. I'm not looking for a QB in the draft; instead, I'm using the top 3 picks to try to rebuild this offensive line.

Cousins isn't the problem but his salary is. We need to look for a replacement at a rookie salary. Trask if selected can sit for a year then we can do whatever with Cousins the next, cut him likely. You can't pay near top dollar for a QB unless he is Mahomes or Russell, even then you are screwed with the rest of the roster so that QB better make up for it. Cousins isn't bad, but his salary is.

Yes I do think the defense can take a step forward, but I'm not sure it will be good enough. I'd look to rebuild for the future in the draft and continue to try and win with Cousins for a year. It would also be a good bargaining chip to renegotiate his salary and maybe make him tradeable.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

FNG wrote:Cousins has been a whipping boy all season, but he's a top 10 QB this year by any measure and was not the problem yesterday with a 111 QB rating (compared to just 81 for Brees). The problem yesterday was obviously the defense and having so many of our top defenders (3 of our best 4 in my opinion) unavailable was much of the reason. If healthy, I think the defense can be just fine next season. But the offensive line needs a lot of help. I'm not looking for a QB in the draft; instead, I'm using the top 3 picks to try to rebuild this offensive line.

Cousins isn't the problem but his salary is. We need to look for a replacement at a rookie salary. Trask if selected can sit for a year then we can do whatever with Cousins the next, cut him likely. You can't pay near top dollar for a QB unless he is Mahomes or Russell, even then you are screwed with the rest of the roster so that QB better make up for it. Cousins isn't bad, but his salary is.

Yes I do think the defense can take a step forward, but I'm not sure it will be good enough. I'd look to rebuild for the future in the draft and continue to try and win with Cousins for a year. It would also be a good bargaining chip to renegotiate his salary and maybe make him tradeable.

IMO the line doesn't need to be remade it needs to continue to be built via legit draft resources regardless of who the QB is.

I'm cool with drafting a future QB. I'm not sure who I would want though. With a shorter college football season there might be a guy you can get that might be a surprise. I'm not suggesting that's the way to go but it's something to think about. I also like the idea of trying to pick up a younger-ish experienced guy to backup Cousins. There is more than 1 way to find that future QB. Once the cap is established being able to at least keep the good players around one way or another would be pretty big for this roster.

Also I think it's worth mentioning that Conklin looked pretty good in this game and did some nice things overall filling in for Rudolph. I'm not sure cutting Rudolph makes sense but maybe a trade is more likely if they feel like Conklin is ready. Irv Smith if healthy looked pretty good too.

I'll admit I ripped Cousin's contract when he got it. But now he is only the 7th highest paid QB in the league, and if you analyze his stats, that's right about where he falls- despite not having the advantage of an adequate offensive line. When a player is paid commensurate with his ranking in the league, I don't see that as a major issue for the team- especially when there are other drastic holes that have to be filled. I'm still using my top picks on offensive line. If Spielman can find some young lineman who can contribute right away and our star defenders are healthy next season, I think this team can be good next year.

I'm not all in on PFF as a perfect metric but let's say it's grades are reasonably worthwhile and look at how they grade the current players on the Vikings oline. Reiff and O'Neill are top 40 tackles. Cleveland grades out as a top 30 guard. Bradbury is a little disappointing as 25th at C but it's not a terrible grade either. Meanwhile Dozier's grade has dropped from not good to one of the worst guards in the league. I think this group the way it's constructed now is probably close to being actually adequate and adding an average starter in place of Dozier might put them as a unit thats in the top half of the league. That's a worthwhile improvement. The other thing worth considering is that it may seem like an excuse it's a reality that Cousins has played for different offensive coordinators every year for years. The difference between Stephanski and Kubiak was probably not significant but it was also a weird year. What might this roster and Cousins look like going into year 2 of a Kubiak led offense and sort of a year 3 of some of what he and Dennison have been wanting to do? This offense probably still underachieved this year to some extent but just plugging in a more capable LG would likely make a pretty big difference. I think we saw a different QB in Cousins the 2nd half of the season. IF they could get off to that type of a start next year or would likely help the overall outcome of the season with a most likely much improved defense. I know Reiff is expensive but he is also a pretty good LT and those players are pretty valuable.

FNG wrote:I'll admit I ripped Cousin's contract when he got it. But now he is only the 7th highest paid QB in the league, and if you analyze his stats, that's right about where he falls- despite not having the advantage of an adequate offensive line. When a player is paid commensurate with his ranking in the league, I don't see that as a major issue for the team- especially when there are other drastic holes that have to be filled. I'm still using my top picks on offensive line. If Spielman can find some young lineman who can contribute right away and our star defenders are healthy next season, I think this team can be good next year.

I can see your point but you would really love it if your QB vastly outplays his contract and you can build a great team around him.

QB salaries also fall in two camps. Rookie scale and super expensive. Cousins is a vet so he's on the super expensive side. At least he's not making 40 million+. It could be worse I suppose.

I still like Cousins and think there is a slight chance we could win a SB with him, I just think a greater chance is rolling the dice in the draft and finding the next superstar QB.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

FNG wrote:I'll admit I ripped Cousin's contract when he got it. But now he is only the 7th highest paid QB in the league, and if you analyze his stats, that's right about where he falls- despite not having the advantage of an adequate offensive line. When a player is paid commensurate with his ranking in the league, I don't see that as a major issue for the team- especially when there are other drastic holes that have to be filled. I'm still using my top picks on offensive line. If Spielman can find some young lineman who can contribute right away and our star defenders are healthy next season, I think this team can be good next year.

I can see your point but you would really love it if your QB vastly outplays his contract and you can build a great team around him.

QB salaries also fall in two camps. Rookie scale and super expensive. Cousins is a vet so he's on the super expensive side. At least he's not making 40 million+. It could be worse I suppose.

I still like Cousins and think there is a slight chance we could win a SB with him, I just think a greater chance is rolling the dice in the draft and finding the next superstar QB.

Yeah, I'd also like our QB to vastly outplay his contract. And I'd also like to see the Vikings draft and develop a more modern, mobile QB rather than a pure pocket passer. I just don't know if this is the year we identify QB as our biggest need.

I look at the PFF data monterpile provided above, and I come to a different conclusion than he does. If Bradbury is 25th at C, doesn't that mean that almost every other team in the league has a better center than we do? Same thing with our other linemen. You simply can't expect an offense to function at its peak without one guy in the top ten at his position. That's why O-line is still my priority by a mile.