Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Ultimately i think they need to pick one of Vando or Reid, one of culver or Okogie, and say goodbye to Juancho and Ricky, and if Beasley is the piece to get you a two way pf like Myles Turner that too. I dont know if Rosas would do all of that but I think that is what it would take to give this roster more balance.

I generally agree with you Doper even though I'd hate to give up Vando or Reid. We'd get more in return for Reid, but of course, we'd be losing more. Naz is just scratching the surface of his ability. He's going to be a really good starting PF or center putting up 20 points per game at some point. I love what Vando brings.

I'd like Rosas to focus on getting as much as he can in exchange for Juancho, Ricky and either Culver or Okogie as you suggested. I'd strong favor trading Culver over Okogie. Unlike Culver, you know what you're getting from Okogie. Moreover, Okogie has a knack for drawing fouls and hits his free throws. Every type of shot, including free throws, are adventures with Culver. Okogie's also much cheaper. Unfortunately, I don't think we can get a consequential player without including Naz in a Ricky/Juancho/Culver package.

Ultimately, i think Rosas will deal Beasley for Turner, Collins or someone comparable. It might require a third team, but I think it's inevitable.

Move both Culver and Okogie for anything. Sunk cost, and zero minutes to give. Keep everyone else.

But this team was over .500 since the allstar break. That's a far more accurate account of this team than earlier in the season when KAT was hurt and our two rookies were really raw.

Actually, the Timberwolves were only 16 - 20 after the All Star Break. And while we saw glimpses into what this team could become (namely Anthony Edwards)... a 36 - 46 record over 82 games is still not good enough to be any sort of viable playoff team.

But yes... your premise is correct in that this team is probably closer to 36 wins than 26 wins in a full season. Whether they are better than that depends largely on the next progression for Edwards and slightly on whether the Wolves get to keep the pick...

I think a huge question is whether we see a continued improvement trajectory from Edwards and McDaniels. One thing we all should have learned by now as Wolves fans is not to assume someone in a Wolves uniform will improve just because he's young (Okogie and Culver are poster children for this....KAT is too to some extent - I mean how much better is he now versus two or three seasons ago?).

Q12543 wrote:I think a huge question is whether we see a continued improvement trajectory from Edwards and McDaniels. One thing we all should have learned by now as Wolves fans is not to assume someone in a Wolves uniform will improve just because he's young (Okogie and Culver are poster children for this....KAT is too to some extent - I mean how much better is he now versus two or three seasons ago?).

This is exactly why I was frustrated with our offense at the end of the season. Sure McDaniels was playing good defense, but they weren't involving him at all offensively. Such a waste to not use that time to develop that part of his game. The kid has an offensive game that needs to be brought out, or he will be one of those guys that never takes the next step.

Q12543 wrote:I think a huge question is whether we see a continued improvement trajectory from Edwards and McDaniels. One thing we all should have learned by now as Wolves fans is not to assume someone in a Wolves uniform will improve just because he's young (Okogie and Culver are poster children for this....KAT is too to some extent - I mean how much better is he now versus two or three seasons ago?).

I think KAT has improved. I think his passing is better and this season we saw improvement in his defense. I never expected much from Culver. While I had high hopes for Okogie, he was the 23rd pick in the draft so it's not surprisingly that he hasn't lived up to my lofty expectations. But to be fair, while he continues to struggle as a shooter, he has clearly improved. He's always had great defensive potential, but he wasn't a particularly good defender as a rookie. He's not a very good defender, so he's improved in that area. He's also far more under control on the offensive end and doesn't make blunders the way he used to.

Ant has improved dramatically in the over the course of his rookie season. As the #1 pick with tremendous natural talent, we should expect him to continue improving. McDaniels also improved and I expect him to continue improving. As Cool noted, a key to McDaniels' improvement will be including him more in the offense to develop what I see as enormous offensive talent. We'll see.

A few things...

- I thought they handled McDaniels perfectly this season. I wouldn't have changed a thing. He has this offseason, summer league, and pre-season to work on and be featured more on offense. The priority heading into the stretch run was getting DLO, KAT, and Edwards reps together and making them the big three of the offense.

- I've said it before and I'll say it again: I can't think of another franchise that could take two prospects like Culver and Okogie and turn them from decent college shooters to two of the worst outside shooting perimeter players in the NBA. That just wouldn't have happened in Toronto or San Antonio. Thee two guys have had multiple offseasons to get better from outside and instead they get worse? How is that even possible!?

- KAT was supposed to be a unicorn and early in his career and was at or near the top of those "if you could pick one guy to start a franchise, who would it be" lists. While he is still an outstanding player, we've seen Embiid and Jokic pass him by and generally dominate that matchup. He's Dirk, not Hakeem.

- I certainly hope Edwards builds on his second half. But it's no guarantee.

Q12543 wrote:A few things...

- I thought they handled McDaniels perfectly this season. I wouldn't have changed a thing. He has this offseason, summer league, and pre-season to work on and be featured more on offense. The priority heading into the stretch run was getting DLO, KAT, and Edwards reps together and making them the big three of the offense.

- I've said it before and I'll say it again: I can't think of another franchise that could take two prospects like Culver and Okogie and turn them from decent college shooters to two of the worst outside shooting perimeter players in the NBA. That just wouldn't have happened in Toronto or San Antonio. Thee two guys have had multiple offseasons to get better from outside and instead they get worse? How is that even possible!?

- KAT was supposed to be a unicorn and early in his career and was at or near the top of those "if you could pick one guy to start a franchise, who would it be" lists. While he is still an outstanding player, we've seen Embiid and Jokic pass him by and generally dominate that matchup. He's Dirk, not Hakeem.

- I certainly hope Edwards builds on his second half. But it's no guarantee.

Q - I think coaching and continuity are big factors in the development of young players. The Wolves haven't had either with KAT, Okogie or Culver. In contrast, KG had both and turned out just fine. Billups actually turned his career around with the Wolves during the KG era when the Wolves had really good head coach for a long period of time. The mistake there was letting Billups go. So it's not the water, a curse, bad karma or some mysterious culture that's held back the development of Okogie, Culver or Towns. First of all, I'm not convinced that any of those three would have developed any better with any other franchise. There's a long list of draft picks that never developed much on the teams that drafted them. In fact, that list is a lot longer than the list of those who did develop. Second, I'll reiterate that Okogie and Towns have improved in several areas. KAT has developed into an elite 3-point shooter with the Wolves after a college career in which he showed no signs of being a three-point shooter.