Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think Rosas' great asset was that he spent that early time as a scout. Would hope that whoever comes in has a distinct eye for talent and a track record of talent acquisition. Giving up draft compensation would be mental to find that person imo.

I agree that experience as a scout helps and was probably one of Gersson's assets as PBO. But the Wolves, like all NBA teams, have a bevy of scouts and basketball people in their organizations - both the front office and coaching staff. As the top basketball executive, the PBO's most important attribute is the ability to process a lot of information and make good judgment. I don't think there are any former NBA scouts on this message board, but we didn't need that background to know that we should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn or Curry over Flynn. In fact, after the Wolves drafted Rubio, half of the large crowd at the Wolves draft party started chanting Curry's name.

I think we tend to overcomplicate or overthink these things sometimes. That's what I did in the 2020 draft. I knew Edwards and Ball were the most talented players in the draft in spite of my lack of NBA scouting experience. But I started to overthink things related to attitude and other tangential issues based on scant evidence to the point where I didn't want the Wolves to draft either one. In truth, a good PBO needs to be good at assembling a high quality staff of assistants and scouts. Then the PBO essentially does what we do with the information we get on line, but with far more and better information about players both inside and outside the NBA. The PBO ultimately has to make a judgment about players, including draft prospects, undrafted free agent prospects and potential trade targets. They also need business savvy when it comes to negotiating and making deals.

I think most NBA PBOs are fairly dim bulbs honestly. They generally have basketball backgrounds, but they have poor judgment or are poor analytical thinkers. So if you're just a little bit competent as an NBA front office executive, you stand out from the rest.

I don't know how good Gupta can be. But I'd take Gupta in a heartbeat over Elton Brand for example.

Ultimately the talent decisions fall on the POBO even with great support around them. I liked that Rosas spent a lot of time in the trenches, and in the G league, scraping the barrel for talent. I don't think its the top picks that I worry as much about at this point as finding someone to get us value at picks in the 20s, or undrafted free Agents. Clearly Rosas had a gift there and I don't know that any POBO can build the infrastructure to be able to find that unique talent.

When Rosas was hired some people knocked him for not being a true basketball guy as he never played the sport etc. Now it seems reasonable to give him credit for having a pretty good eye for talent.

Is Gupta a guy that has an eye for talent? I know he has been touted as a guy that sees things other don't and being able to come up with creative ways to acquire players or extract value (except nothing happened at the trade deadline lol). How exactly can you be good at knowing how to do that type of thing without being actually able to assess the assets/players? I'm not saying he is some sort of amazing scout but are we sure he doesn't know talent when he sees it?

Love your points on Gupta not doing anything even though he's supposed to be elite on finding value and multi-team trades. I really wish we had more info on why he didn't make a move. What all was available to him. Was it purely a decision made on "I don't want to take heat for a move because if I do nothing some team will hire me". I'd like to say no but it was odd to see the value hound and multi-team ESPN Trade Machine guru sit back and do nothing. Did the owners put handcuffs on him?

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think Rosas' great asset was that he spent that early time as a scout. Would hope that whoever comes in has a distinct eye for talent and a track record of talent acquisition. Giving up draft compensation would be mental to find that person imo.

I agree that experience as a scout helps and was probably one of Gersson's assets as PBO. But the Wolves, like all NBA teams, have a bevy of scouts and basketball people in their organizations - both the front office and coaching staff. As the top basketball executive, the PBO's most important attribute is the ability to process a lot of information and make good judgment. I don't think there are any former NBA scouts on this message board, but we didn't need that background to know that we should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn or Curry over Flynn. In fact, after the Wolves drafted Rubio, half of the large crowd at the Wolves draft party started chanting Curry's name.

I think we tend to overcomplicate or overthink these things sometimes. That's what I did in the 2020 draft. I knew Edwards and Ball were the most talented players in the draft in spite of my lack of NBA scouting experience. But I started to overthink things related to attitude and other tangential issues based on scant evidence to the point where I didn't want the Wolves to draft either one. In truth, a good PBO needs to be good at assembling a high quality staff of assistants and scouts. Then the PBO essentially does what we do with the information we get on line, but with far more and better information about players both inside and outside the NBA. The PBO ultimately has to make a judgment about players, including draft prospects, undrafted free agent prospects and potential trade targets. They also need business savvy when it comes to negotiating and making deals.

I think most NBA PBOs are fairly dim bulbs honestly. They generally have basketball backgrounds, but they have poor judgment or are poor analytical thinkers. So if you're just a little bit competent as an NBA front office executive, you stand out from the rest.

I don't know how good Gupta can be. But I'd take Gupta in a heartbeat over Elton Brand for example.

Ultimately the talent decisions fall on the POBO even with great support around them. I liked that Rosas spent a lot of time in the trenches, and in the G league, scraping the barrel for talent. I don't think its the top picks that I worry as much about at this point as finding someone to get us value at picks in the 20s, or undrafted free Agents. Clearly Rosas had a gift there and I don't know that any POBO can build the infrastructure to be able to find that unique talent.

When Rosas was hired some people knocked him for not being a true basketball guy as he never played the sport etc. Now it seems reasonable to give him credit for having a pretty good eye for talent.

Is Gupta a guy that has an eye for talent? I know he has been touted as a guy that sees things other don't and being able to come up with creative ways to acquire players or extract value (except nothing happened at the trade deadline lol). How exactly can you be good at knowing how to do that type of thing without being actually able to assess the assets/players? I'm not saying he is some sort of amazing scout but are we sure he doesn't know talent when he sees it?

Love your points on Gupta not doing anything even though he's supposed to be elite on finding value and multi-team trades. I really wish we had more info on why he didn't make a move. What all was available to him. Was it purely a decision made on "I don't want to take heat for a move because if I do nothing some team will hire me". I'd like to say no but it was odd to see the value hound and multi-team ESPN Trade Machine guru sit back and do nothing. Did the owners put handcuffs on him?

My advice to Glen Taylor, Mark Lore and A-Rod: Please say no to hiring any PBO who believes he has to make a deal at the February trade deadline when his team is doing well rather than preserve the team's assets (players, picks & financial flexibility) for use during the off-season when there are typically FAR MORE opportunities and options than at the February deadline. Bottom line for me is that It's impossible to fairly judge Gupta when his one chance to do something was a trade during the season before the February deadline or a waiver-wire signing shortly after that deadline. I'm glad he didn't trade for Simmons or Myles Turner. Any realistic deal for either player last October would have landed with a big ugly thud. I doubt there were any realistic deals in February that would have moved the needle significantly in the Wolves favor in the short run, and if there were, those deals probably would have jeopardized the team's longer-term horizon. And the Wolves were constrained by the luxury tax threshold, which took free-agent signings off the table and further limited trade options. The really good PBOs in all but the few glamour markets show patients and build over time for sustainability. That's what Connelly has done in Denver and Buford in San Antonio.

I'm not suggesting that Gupta is a good PBO or the right choice for that position moving forward. But it's a huge stretch to reach any negative conclusions regarding his limited time as interim PBO based on the absence of any significant trades or free-agent acquisitions during the season, especially given the circumstances under which Gupta took the position. If he remains the top guy through this off season, then I think we'll have ample evidence to make at least a preliminary judgment one way or the other. But even then, that's a limited sample. What did most of us think of Rosas after his first off-season as Wolves PBO. He traded up for a guy (Garland) but couldn't get him and then drafted Culver. Even the following year, there was an outcry over Gersson's decisions to re-sign Juancho. But finally, after three off-seasons and lots of more complete body of evidence, most if not all of us look back and conclude that Rosas did a really good job as PBO.

We really don't have enough information or insight to conclude whether Gupta will or won't turn out to be a good PBO. That question may become moot soon if the Wolves hire Connelly. Why do I want the Wolves to sign Connelly? Because he has a multi-year history as a really good PBO. So I'd lay down a large bet on Connelly being a really good PBO for the Wolves. I'd probably put down a really small bet on Gupta because of his intellect and his positive reputation around the League, but it would be a really small bet. I'm hoping for Connelly. :)

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think Rosas' great asset was that he spent that early time as a scout. Would hope that whoever comes in has a distinct eye for talent and a track record of talent acquisition. Giving up draft compensation would be mental to find that person imo.

I agree that experience as a scout helps and was probably one of Gersson's assets as PBO. But the Wolves, like all NBA teams, have a bevy of scouts and basketball people in their organizations - both the front office and coaching staff. As the top basketball executive, the PBO's most important attribute is the ability to process a lot of information and make good judgment. I don't think there are any former NBA scouts on this message board, but we didn't need that background to know that we should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn or Curry over Flynn. In fact, after the Wolves drafted Rubio, half of the large crowd at the Wolves draft party started chanting Curry's name.

I think we tend to overcomplicate or overthink these things sometimes. That's what I did in the 2020 draft. I knew Edwards and Ball were the most talented players in the draft in spite of my lack of NBA scouting experience. But I started to overthink things related to attitude and other tangential issues based on scant evidence to the point where I didn't want the Wolves to draft either one. In truth, a good PBO needs to be good at assembling a high quality staff of assistants and scouts. Then the PBO essentially does what we do with the information we get on line, but with far more and better information about players both inside and outside the NBA. The PBO ultimately has to make a judgment about players, including draft prospects, undrafted free agent prospects and potential trade targets. They also need business savvy when it comes to negotiating and making deals.

I think most NBA PBOs are fairly dim bulbs honestly. They generally have basketball backgrounds, but they have poor judgment or are poor analytical thinkers. So if you're just a little bit competent as an NBA front office executive, you stand out from the rest.

I don't know how good Gupta can be. But I'd take Gupta in a heartbeat over Elton Brand for example.

Ultimately the talent decisions fall on the POBO even with great support around them. I liked that Rosas spent a lot of time in the trenches, and in the G league, scraping the barrel for talent. I don't think its the top picks that I worry as much about at this point as finding someone to get us value at picks in the 20s, or undrafted free Agents. Clearly Rosas had a gift there and I don't know that any POBO can build the infrastructure to be able to find that unique talent.

When Rosas was hired some people knocked him for not being a true basketball guy as he never played the sport etc. Now it seems reasonable to give him credit for having a pretty good eye for talent.

Is Gupta a guy that has an eye for talent? I know he has been touted as a guy that sees things other don't and being able to come up with creative ways to acquire players or extract value (except nothing happened at the trade deadline lol). How exactly can you be good at knowing how to do that type of thing without being actually able to assess the assets/players? I'm not saying he is some sort of amazing scout but are we sure he doesn't know talent when he sees it?

Love your points on Gupta not doing anything even though he's supposed to be elite on finding value and multi-team trades. I really wish we had more info on why he didn't make a move. What all was available to him. Was it purely a decision made on "I don't want to take heat for a move because if I do nothing some team will hire me". I'd like to say no but it was odd to see the value hound and multi-team ESPN Trade Machine guru sit back and do nothing. Did the owners put handcuffs on him?

My advice to Glen Taylor, Mark Lore and A-Rod: Please say no to hiring any PBO who believes he has to make a deal at the February trade deadline when his team is doing well rather than preserve the team's assets (players, picks & financial flexibility) for use during the off-season when there are typically FAR MORE opportunities and options than at the February deadline. Bottom line for me is that It's impossible to fairly judge Gupta when his one chance to do something was a trade during the season before the February deadline or a waiver-wire signing shortly after that deadline. I'm glad he didn't trade for Simmons or Myles Turner. Any realistic deal for either player last October would have landed with a big ugly thud. I doubt there were any realistic deals in February that would have moved the needle significantly in the Wolves favor in the short run, and if there were, those deals probably would have jeopardized the team's longer-term horizon. And the Wolves were constrained by the luxury tax threshold, which took free-agent signings off the table and further limited trade options. The really good PBOs in all but the few glamour markets show patients and build over time for sustainability. That's what Connelly has done in Denver and Buford in San Antonio.

I'm not suggesting that Gupta is a good PBO or the right choice for that position moving forward. But it's a huge stretch to reach any negative conclusions regarding his limited time as interim PBO based on the absence of any significant trades or free-agent acquisitions during the season, especially given the circumstances under which Gupta took the position. If he remains the top guy through this off season, then I think we'll have ample evidence to make at least a preliminary judgment one way or the other. But even then, that's a limited sample. What did most of us think of Rosas after his first off-season as Wolves PBO. He traded up for a guy (Garland) but couldn't get him and then drafted Culver. Even the following year, there was an outcry over Gersson's decisions to re-sign Juancho. But finally, after three off-seasons and lots of more complete body of evidence, most if not all of us look back and conclude that Rosas did a really good job as PBO.

We really don't have enough information or insight to conclude whether Gupta will or won't turn out to be a good PBO. That question may become moot soon if the Wolves hire Connelly. Why do I want the Wolves to sign Connelly? Because he has a multi-year history as a really good PBO. So I'd lay down a large bet on Connelly being a really good PBO for the Wolves. I'd probably put down a really small bet on Gupta because of his intellect and his positive reputation around the League, but it would be a really small bet. I'm hoping for Connelly. :)

My posts at the time were actually in line with him doing nothing and being ok with it. I saw it as spending assets on a maybe it makes us better scenario and in our first playoff run in a while my expectations were not to high. I agree on all your points about Gupta and Connelly. I think they will go with Gupta and that most of this is all for show so they can say they searched and Gupta is the right fit, though it does seem there is a real chance they can just pay more to Connelly and pry him away.

Who's more likely Connelly or Gupata?

Tactical unit wrote:Who's more likely Connelly or Gupata?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Tim Connelly has already been officially named President of Basketball Operations for the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a done deal.

I worked nights and missed that news with a busy day, well hot damn shit just got real!!!!!!

Tactical unit wrote:I worked nights and missed that news with a busy day, well hot damn shit just got real!!!!!!

It's been two days at this point my friend - it all broke on Monday! Good on you for not having your eyes glued to a screen all the time, LOL!

What I love most about the Connelly hire is the fact that he gets an above average situation and can focus on what tweaks and additions can take this team over the top. I think he'll be rather active and it should provide an exciting opportunity to become one of the best teams in the West.

Tactical unit wrote:What I love most about the Connelly hire is the fact that he gets an above average situation and can focus on what tweaks and additions can take this team over the top. I think he'll be rather active and it should provide an exciting opportunity to become one of the best teams in the West.

Good points. I agree he'll be rather active. I'm definitely excited to see what he does this summer. The only caveat to him being really active this summer is the fact that he has a strong incentive to maintain salary flexibility for next summer when the Wolves could potentially be well under the salary cap and potentially able to snag a major free agent. Note that after next summer, the Wolves will likely be capped out.

lipoli390 wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:What I love most about the Connelly hire is the fact that he gets an above average situation and can focus on what tweaks and additions can take this team over the top. I think he'll be rather active and it should provide an exciting opportunity to become one of the best teams in the West.

Good points. I agree he'll be rather active. I'm definitely excited to see what he does this summer. The only caveat to him being really active this summer is the fact that he has a strong incentive to maintain salary flexibility for next summer when the Wolves could potentially be well under the salary cap and potentially able to snag a major free agent. Note that after next summer, the Wolves will likely be capped out.

Right. There is no guarantee that he does a bunch of wheeling and dealing. I'm 95% positive he is going to add a big - what kind of big and at what price point I don't know - but I am certain that is a move he is going to make. But that can be done without necessarily making a big trade.

But after that move, there is a scenario where he largely runs most of the roster back next season, including Beasley, DLO, etc.