Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden0916 wrote:Perkins would be bought out in that scenario, world. We wouldn't keep that idiot.

Which is exactly why i will only do this if we can move perk for a player. A salary and roster space dump for thad makes no sense.

Yes, as a thad fan myself, im disappointed with his play for us. But losing him will only make us worse and he is no way to be blame for the current state of the team as he seems to be the punching bag of most here. A starting five of thad ab dieng mo and wiggins is one i hope flip tries and one i think is our best option now.

sjm34 wrote:what are Young's strengths?

Young has been top10 finisher at rim in last 4 seasons prior this (including all centers). Problem is that since he is mainly finishing from others passes, he needs someone to deliver ball to him. I was hoping that Rubio would be doing that but since he has not been injured almost whole season, Young's numbers at rim are career worst.

This season Thad has had one of the best assist/TO ratio among all power forwards and he is also one of the few power forwards that has more steals than turnovers. Also based on 82games.com, there is only couple of starting power forwards that allow their opponent counter part to score less points per 48 minutes than Thad. Thad's number is 18.6 and power forwards allowing less points are Garnett with 14.7, Anthony Davis with 17.2, Harrison Barnes with 17.5, Motiejunas, Jason Thompson and Greg Monroe with 18.1 and Zach Randolph with 18.3. So he has to do something right in defense since his man is not scoring more.

Camden wrote:I have a different question, though. How do you think David West/Taj Gibson/Ryan Anderson would look playing with Zach LaVine, Andrew Wiggins, Chase Budinger and Gorgui Dieng?

I think West would look really good in Flips offense that is based mainly on long twos. He is one of the best jump shooters among all power forwards. Taj Gibson might make Wolves defense at least mediocre since he is one of the best defenders among all PF but on offense he would make spacing even worse. Ryan Anderson would be great from offense spacing point of view but in defense he and Dieng would probably have together defensive rating that would be 120 or worse.

But I believe that Thad is at least as good fit with current Wolves than all three players you mentioned when Rubio will be back.

Mikkeman wrote:

sjm34 wrote:what are Young's strengths?

Young has been top10 finisher at rim in last 4 seasons prior this (including all centers). Problem is that since he is mainly finishing from others passes, he needs someone to deliver ball to him. I was hoping that Rubio would be doing that but since he has not been injured almost whole season, Young's numbers at rim are career worst.

This season Thad has had one of the best assist/TO ratio among all power forwards and he is also one of the few power forwards that has more steals than turnovers. Also based on 82games.com, there is only couple of starting power forwards that allow their opponent counter part to score less points per 48 minutes than Thad. Thad's number is 18.6 and power forwards allowing less points are Garnett with 14.7, Anthony Davis with 17.2, Harrison Barnes with 17.5, Motiejunas, Jason Thompson and Greg Monroe with 18.1 and Zach Randolph with 18.3. So he has to do something right in defense since his man is not scoring more.

So let me get this straight. You are making a case for Thad being well above average this year? Like they say, stats can lie.

sjm34 wrote:Pek isn't an above average rebounder, Young is downright terrible. They are both poor defenders and a bad fit next to each other. Neither can block shots, and both are poor help, and PnR defenders. They both rely on others to get their offense. There is no upside to keeping him, and as Hicks pointed out, the price tag is way too high. Young should be making the mle. He is a tweener, with way too many holes in his game.

Pek is one of the best (if not best) offensive rebounder in NBA and his abilty to take space and box out in defense help others to get those boards. It is not coincidence that Wolves have out rebounded their opponent by wide margin in both ends of floor every season (including this) while Pek has been in court.

Mikkeman wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Pek isn't an above average rebounder, Young is downright terrible. They are both poor defenders and a bad fit next to each other. Neither can block shots, and both are poor help, and PnR defenders. They both rely on others to get their offense. There is no upside to keeping him, and as Hicks pointed out, the price tag is way too high. Young should be making the mle. He is a tweener, with way too many holes in his game.

Pek is one of the best (if not best) offensive rebounder in NBA and his abilty to take space and box out in defense help others to get those boards. It is not coincidence that Wolves have out rebounded their opponent by wide margin in both ends of floor every season (including this) while Pek has been in court.

It's not like he had a top 2 rebounder in the league at the time next to him during that span...oh wait.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:So let me get this straight. You are making a case for Thad being well above average this year? Like they say, stats can lie.

Offensively he has been pretty bad but it is mainly because he has been asked to do things that are not his strengths. Similar like playing Rubio mainly off the ball in offense (they did this in Spain and Rubio looked horrible) or asking Pek to create from high post.

Defensively he has been OK or probably I should say one of the least bad defenders in Wolves team. I can understand that some single stat can lie but I cannot believe that all of those would be lying.

- Based on basketball reference Wolves defensive rating with Young on the court has been 110.3 and with him off the court, it has been 115.3. Only Jeff Adrien and Rubio have had bigger positive impact on Wolves defense.
- Based on NBA.com during Thad's five game absence Wolves defensive rating was absurdly bad 127.5 pts per 100 possessions.
- Based on 82games.com, Thad has allowed his opponent counterpart to score least points per 48 minutes among all Wolves players. Either power forward is currently the worst position in West or Young has done better job to prevent his man scoring that other Wolves.
- Based on nba.com, Dieng and Bennett have allowed higher opponent FG% at rim than Young has allowed. All of them have been bad though. Young has that 55.8, Dieng 56.1 and Bennett 59.4. Only Jeff Adrien has had this figure better than Thad among Wolves bigs this season with 48.1.

khans2k5 wrote:It's not like he had a top 2 rebounder in the league at the time next to him during that span...oh wait.

Who is the top 2 rebounder this season who has been playing next to Pek? I guess it is not Thad. Of course sample size is small but I honestly believe that this trend will continue if Pek is able to play.

For example last year Pek had bigger impact on Wolves rebounding than Love. Wolves out rebounded their opponents in both ends 6.4% when Pek was in court and they were out rebounded by 1.4% margin when he was off the court. Similar numbers with Love were +2.1% with him and without him Wolves still out rebounded their opponents with 1.3% margin.

Mikkeman wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:So let me get this straight. You are making a case for Thad being well above average this year? Like they say, stats can lie.

Offensively he has been pretty bad but it is mainly because he has been asked to do things that are not his strengths. Similar like playing Rubio mainly off the ball in offense (they did this in Spain and Rubio looked horrible) or asking Pek to create from high post.

Defensively he has been OK or probably I should say one of the least bad defenders in Wolves team. I can understand that some single stat can lie but I cannot believe that all of those would be lying.

- Based on basketball reference Wolves defensive rating with Young on the court has been 110.3 and with him off the court, it has been 115.3. Only Jeff Adrien and Rubio have had bigger positive impact on Wolves defense.
- Based on NBA.com during Thad's five game absence Wolves defensive rating was absurdly bad 127.5 pts per 100 possessions.
- Based on 82games.com, Thad has allowed his opponent counterpart to score least points per 48 minutes among all Wolves players. Either power forward is currently the worst position in West or Young has done better job to prevent his man scoring that other Wolves.
- Based on nba.com, Dieng and Bennett have allowed higher opponent FG% at rim than Young has allowed. All of them have been bad though. Young has that 55.8, Dieng 56.1 and Bennett 59.4. Only Jeff Adrien has had this figure better than Thad among Wolves bigs this season with 48.1.

Thad's five game absence not only left a shorthanded team down another man, but at the worst possible time scheduling and travel wise. That happened during the mexico road trip.

Thad's steals and points given up are connected. When you gamble for steals giving up position thus forcing your C to cover your man, it is very misleading to give any value to those stats. Anyone watching Young on the court for more than 3 minutes has witnessed this. It doesn't happen a couple times a game, but more like ten to fifteen. Young should actually be trading checks with Gorgui for playing D for him. Young never helps on the PnR, only waving a hand at the player as he tracks next to his man assuring that he doesn't receive a pass. Unfortunately the ball handler has usually taken his clear path to the basket. Young is the anti-christ when it comes to team defense, and even worse guarding his own man.

"Young is the anti-christ when it comes to team defense, and even worse guarding his own man."

We're watching two different players. But okay.