Morey’s Ever-Shrinking Leverage

[KiwiMatt]

If I was Gupta my offer would be DLO, our 2023 1st and 2nd (that they owe us). I would also ask for Paul Reed in return and add their choice of Okogie or Layman to match salaries. I would also be comfortable adding a 1st round pick swap.

If they ask for McDaniels or another 1st then walk away.

Beverley / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
McDaniels / Reed / Okogie
Simmons / Vanderbilt
Towns / Reid

[Lipoli390]

I think Morey rightly knows the asset doesnt change. As long as Simmons is healthy someone will eventually pony up for him. Im sure other GMs find him annoying, but I find car salesmen annoying too, unfortunately they usually stand between me and the asset I want. Simmons has yet to go full nuclear (a la Butler) so for now Morey is fine to hold out for a better deal. I think he will end up with something decent.

Decent, yes, but Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard!? I don't think so. I have to believe there are "decent" deals available.

Now may be the gamble Morey takes is thinking the Sixers will be good enough that they can withstand sitting on Ben with no other help-now players in return. In the meantime, there will be some percentage of teams who go south quickly in the first couple months of the season. Those are perhaps the teams he'd hold out for, assuming they have assets he covets.

My hope is that the Sixers get off to a shaky start without Simmons, in which case the fans will turn on Morey and Co. in a hurry and demand they get some help rather than sitting on an idle asset.

That's my hope to, Q. :). And I agree with your response to Doper. Morey will end up getting decent value for Simmons. But he won't get anything close to the haul he was reportedly expecting and pushing for Moreover, he'll likely get less than he would have gotten 4 weeks ago.

The League-wide disdain for Morey isn't driving the result; it's just a factor on the edges in that no one will cut him any slack. We're all human. If I find a car salesman particularly annoying, I'll usually look for another one who has the same or a similar vehicle. If I can't find another one with the car I want, I might actually pass on the car unless I feel I absolutely have to have it. If I'm set on getting that car from that one salesman, then the fact that I find him especially annoying will drive be to push him even harder for the price and terms I want. But again, the disdain for Morey is only a minor factor in my view. It's Morey's arrogance, which appears to have clouded his judgment. When you're unduly full of yourself like Morey appears to be you believe you can get whatever you want. Eventually reality sets in with a reminder that you can't.

I have no doubt that many front office executives around the League are enjoying Morey's miscalculation and resulting struggles. But ultimately at least one of those executives will step up with a deal that Morey will feel compelled to accept and it will be far less than he wanted and probably significantly less than he could have gotten 4 weeks ago if his ego hadn't eclipsed his judgment. And I think it will be a decent deal for the Sixers. I still believe that Morey can get Brogdon, Sexton, VanVleet, Dejounte Murray or Haliburton. He simply won't be able to get the bevy of future lightly protected picks, pick-swaps and other good players he might have been able to get 4 weeks ago. And he definitely won't get Lillard, Beal of Fox - unless he offers some picks and other assets along with Simmons.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

If I was Gupta my offer would be DLO, our 2023 1st and 2nd (that they owe us). I would also ask for Paul Reed in return and add their choice of Okogie or Layman to match salaries. I would also be comfortable adding a 1st round pick swap.

If they ask for McDaniels or another 1st then walk away.

Beverley / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
McDaniels / Reed / Okogie
Simmons / Vanderbilt
Towns / Reid

Remember, we gave up Wiggins and a first for DLO. So, and I'm being generous here, if the market value of DLO is Wiggins plus a first, that is a HELL of a lot less than the market value of Simmons. We're just not sure if Morey even values DLO as much of a positive asset, as even among us basketball nuts we're kind of split here.

This is why a lot of pundits think the Wolves would have to involve some 3rd team....because the guys the Sixers would want from us (KAT and Edwards) are too valuable for us to give up and they guys we're willing to give up (DLO and Beasley) may simply may not be valued all that much by Morey.

[Lipoli390]

If I was Gupta my offer would be DLO, our 2023 1st and 2nd (that they owe us). I would also ask for Paul Reed in return and add their choice of Okogie or Layman to match salaries. I would also be comfortable adding a 1st round pick swap.

If they ask for McDaniels or another 1st then walk away.

Beverley / McLaughlin
Edwards / Beasley / Nowell
McDaniels / Reed / Okogie
Simmons / Vanderbilt
Towns / Reid

Remember, we gave up Wiggins and a first for DLO. So, and I'm being generous here, if the market value of DLO is Wiggins plus a first, that is a HELL of a lot less than the market value of Simmons. We're just not sure if Morey even values DLO as much of a positive asset, as even among us basketball nuts we're kind of split here.

This is why a lot of pundits think the Wolves would have to involve some 3rd team....because the guys the Sixers would want from us (KAT and Edwards) are too valuable for us to give up and they guys we're willing to give up (DLO and Beasley) may simply may not be valued all that much by Morey.

I'm completely in sync with Matt's bottom line deal for Simmons. I'd be willing to add Nowell to the package. Do I think the Sixers would take it? No, because I suspect they would prefer other guards who they could probably get in return for Simmons - e.g., Brogdon, VanVleet, Dejounte Murray, Sexton. But I could be wrong. Perhaps Morey values DLO more than some or all of those other guards. If so, then the package Matt suggested (and that I like) could land Simmons in Minnesota.

[Monster]

I think Morey rightly knows the asset doesnt change. As long as Simmons is healthy someone will eventually pony up for him. Im sure other GMs find him annoying, but I find car salesmen annoying too, unfortunately they usually stand between me and the asset I want. Simmons has yet to go full nuclear (a la Butler) so for now Morey is fine to hold out for a better deal. I think he will end up with something decent.

Decent, yes, but Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard!? I don't think so. I have to believe there are "decent" deals available.

Now may be the gamble Morey takes is thinking the Sixers will be good enough that they can withstand sitting on Ben with no other help-now players in return. In the meantime, there will be some percentage of teams who go south quickly in the first couple months of the season. Those are perhaps the teams he'd hold out for, assuming they have assets he covets.

My hope is that the Sixers get off to a shaky start without Simmons, in which case the fans will turn on Morey and Co. in a hurry and demand they get some help rather than sitting on an idle asset.

That's my hope to, Q. :). And I agree with your response to Doper. Morey will end up getting decent value for Simmons. But he won't get anything close to the haul he was reportedly expecting and pushing for Moreover, he'll likely get less than he would have gotten 4 weeks ago.

The League-wide disdain for Morey isn't driving the result; it's just a factor on the edges in that no one will cut him any slack. We're all human. If I find a car salesman particularly annoying, I'll usually look for another one who has the same or a similar vehicle. If I can't find another one with the car I want, I might actually pass on the car unless I feel I absolutely have to have it. If I'm set on getting that car from that one salesman, then the fact that I find him especially annoying will drive be to push him even harder for the price and terms I want. But again, the disdain for Morey is only a minor factor in my view. It's Morey's arrogance, which appears to have clouded his judgment. When you're unduly full of yourself like Morey appears to be you believe you can get whatever you want. Eventually reality sets in with a reminder that you can't.

I have no doubt that many front office executives around the League are enjoying Morey's miscalculation and resulting struggles. But ultimately at least one of those executives will step up with a deal that Morey will feel compelled to accept and it will be far less than he wanted and probably significantly less than he could have gotten 4 weeks ago if his ego hadn't eclipsed his judgment. And I think it will be a decent deal for the Sixers. I still believe that Morey can get Brogdon, Sexton, VanVleet, Dejounte Murray or Haliburton. He simply won't be able to get the bevy of future lightly protected picks, pick-swaps and other good players he might have been able to get 4 weeks ago. And he definitely won't get Lillard, Beal of Fox - unless he offers some picks and other assets along with Simmons.

Lilliard and Beal...who here would deal thought guys straight up to get Simmons? What assets would you need the Sixers to add to move them either of those players in a Simmons package? That's the reality in my mind that it's a bit ridiculous that Morey was hoping to move Simmons for one of those players. They were going to have to add at least another asset (Morey may have been perfectly happy to do so) to get Lilliard or Beal. Like someone from the National m dis laid out some teams if they trade their star player they don't want to pseudo rebuild they want to tear down and basically start over. I have no idea what Portland or Washington would have wanted to do but at some point making a move that makes sense for your franchise instead of trying to wait for something that may never happen is probably a worthwhile thing to pursue. Morey currently looks like a bit of a joke except to the people that dislike Simmons* and want Morey to stick it to him

* I don't think Simmons is completely blameless in the whole situation but I think it's pretty clear where this has all been going and this league isn't about being able to tell players what they are going to do anymore. The pendulum has swung towards some players having a lot of power to make their own way. To some extent I don't think it's a bad thing. Does anyone really think the Sixers want Simmons back? It doesn't really seem that way to me. Make a deal that makes sense for everyone.

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Good point about the pendulum. As you noted, it's pretty clear where this has all been going in the NBA. Clint Eastwood (aka, Dirty Harry) said, "a man's got to know his own limitations." Morey appears completely unaware of his limitations. Gotta say, it's a lot of fun to watch. It's clear the Sixers don't want Simmons back. As you said, mad a deal that makes sense. Morey will still get a decent return for Simmons; but not anything close to a king's ransom.

The closer we get to the beginning of the season, the more teams are inclined to lock in with their current rosters. That's another factor that will continue to constrain the market for Simmons. I'm curious. What would you consider a decent return for the Sixers given the Sixers' obvious lack of leverage and the relatively cool market for Simmons?

[TheFuture]

Again, just don't do it. We have had too much headache. We do not need to add this debacle.

[Monster]

Monster - Good point about the pendulum. As you noted, it's pretty clear where this has all been going in the NBA. Clint Eastwood (aka, Dirty Harry) said, "a man's got to know his own limitations." Morey appears completely unaware of his limitations. Gotta say, it's a lot of fun to watch. It's clear the Sixers don't want Simmons back. As you said, mad a deal that makes sense. Morey will still get a decent return for Simmons; but not anything close to a king's ransom.

The closer we get to the beginning of the season, the more teams are inclined to lock in with their current rosters. That's another factor that will continue to constrain the market for Simmons. I'm curious. What would you consider a decent return for the Sixers given the Sixers' obvious lack of leverage and the relatively cool market for Simmons?

I still think Morey can get a good starting level guard and another asset for Simmons. Some advanced stats make FVV look like a really damn good player. I've always been a fan of his so I am biased when it comes to him. I read at some point that the Raptors were much less interested in Simmons once they got Scottie Barnes. Not sure I am buying that but if they weren't really willing to give up much then that takes out another team to drive up the price. Is Indiana not willing to give up Brogdon? Idk are the Wolves really not wanting to give up Russell? Is Cleveland really planning to have the smallest backcourt in the league? We have discussed Sexton already. If the Sixers had a Guard and needed a big time scorer shooter that didn't need the ball Beasley plus more could be a nice get but they have a few of those guys that are shooters that don't play make enough already and might have another guy kinda like that in Maxey although he may be able to create for himself at least. Beasley isn't a sure thing either maybe he is a 6th man...there is potential for him to be a really good player though. If you have a young team I would think you may have a little bit of hesitation to bring in Beasley right now because of his off court stuff. A vet team probably a little less so...except they may want someone more proven.

[thedoper]

I think Morey rightly knows the asset doesnt change. As long as Simmons is healthy someone will eventually pony up for him. Im sure other GMs find him annoying, but I find car salesmen annoying too, unfortunately they usually stand between me and the asset I want. Simmons has yet to go full nuclear (a la Butler) so for now Morey is fine to hold out for a better deal. I think he will end up with something decent.

Decent, yes, but Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard!? I don't think so. I have to believe there are "decent" deals available.

Now may be the gamble Morey takes is thinking the Sixers will be good enough that they can withstand sitting on Ben with no other help-now players in return. In the meantime, there will be some percentage of teams who go south quickly in the first couple months of the season. Those are perhaps the teams he'd hold out for, assuming they have assets he covets.

My hope is that the Sixers get off to a shaky start without Simmons, in which case the fans will turn on Morey and Co. in a hurry and demand they get some help rather than sitting on an idle asset.

That could be the turn, I dont think Morey would cave in that instance though. I never thought he would get Lillard and said right when the rumors started that the only deal that makes sense from Portland's perspective is McCollum. I think Beal would cost Philly another asset but I would be working that angle hard if I was Philly. Maybe washington has no interest in Simmons and that could be the 3rd team were looking for?

[Coolbreeze44]

The Sixers need a point guard if they are going to deal Simmons. Their current options, though decent players, are not going to provide the point guard play necessary to contend. I don't believe Morey wants DLO, and that's our biggest problem. Any deal involving the Wolves would have to include DLO because of that glaring need for a PG. Unless we can involve a third team, I don't see how we make this work.