Page 4 of 25

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:38 pm
by TAFKASP
monsterpile wrote:
We all have some biases. I also think noticing differences is human. It's part of our actual brain fiction. How are you going to process your world if you don't see differences? What is bad is when those differences aren't celebrated they are stereotyped, ignored etc.

Each of us have a particular culture even if we grew up in similar areas and have similar backgrounds. One my friends who came to this country from South America as a kid (not legally) likes to learn about different cultures. He has some fun with people turning the table on them asking if they know their heritage because they have say a German name or what their last name means. He says many younger people have no clue but it gets them thinking. BLM is certainly not a shy movement but they want people to pay attention to a general group Black people that does seem to have been pushed aside. Does it divide to some extent? Yes. Should it? Probably. There has to be some cognitive dissonance for change to happen. I think what you and some other have gotten at in this thread about a few things is that sometimes these go to a place where people don't feel open it closes them down. It doesn't make them feel safe to share. I know I've felt that way at times for sure the past few days. We also need to be careful not to lump all of the group together. I went to the Capitol Building protest yesterday. It was a pretty big turnout. There was a massive spectrum of people there. I didn't agree with everyone's positions based on some of the signs people had. I assume though that there was some common purpose there even with the wide spectrum of views.

The longer I live the more it seems things are so much more nuanced I find less and less absolutes that apply. I do think there are some Absolutes but I find more and more grey than black and white. That's a more difficult world to live in for a variety of reasons. Again our brain tries to process our world in part comparing one thing to another thing. We do it all the time on this forum. It's not a perfect way but sometimes it's about all we have. It's difficult and takes effort and a decision to do so but staying open to new possibilities and learning is a great way to not just get stuck in one way of thinking. I wish I did more of that constructively myself. I genuinely think that everyone on this board are people that do put forth some effort into being open and learning and that's why it's a pretty good community to be a part of. Is it perfect? No but it's nothing like some other places where it's just people trolling constantly or just lighting people up for not knowing something pretty basic.

How we value people the last few weeks has been altered a bit. Now we talk about "essential" workers. There are certainly people that were not recognized at all that are now being celebrated. Work places are possibly changed forever. How can society have real lasting change for valuing each other differently than we do now? It's fascinating to think about.


Excellent post! Rather than risk puting my foot in my mouth I'm just going to agree completely with the above!

I hope everybody is safe and remains so!

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:45 pm
by mjs34
I have a legitimate question about this whole incident.

What did I miss in all the media coverage that somehow made this about Race? I get the police brutality angle, but I see nothing that tells me his race had anything to do with what happened.

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:56 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
sjm34 wrote:I have a legitimate question about this whole incident.

What did I miss in all the media coverage that somehow made this about Race? I get the police brutality angle, but I see nothing that tells me his race had anything to do with what happened.


Agreed. Some people are just bad human beings. Somewhere along the way this became a race issue out of no where. Weird. It's almost like there's a political agenda at play here, which is disgusting.

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:11 pm
by D-Mac [enjin:19736340]
Camden0916 wrote:
sjm34 wrote:I have a legitimate question about this whole incident.

What did I miss in all the media coverage that somehow made this about Race? I get the police brutality angle, but I see nothing that tells me his race had anything to do with what happened.


Agreed. Some people are just bad human beings. Somewhere along the way this became a race issue out of no where. Weird. It's almost like there's a political agenda at play here, which is disgusting.


Agree with you both. I've read a lot of great posts in this thread and I'm not surprised, because this board is awesome (I usually read more than I write). I'd just echo what most of you said. It's pretty bizarre that only one post in the thread really left me scratching my head. I'm a little turned off by the NBA right now (even more than usual), but I'm sure I'll come around by the time the wolves play again. Thanks everyone for the great place to come and read and write on occasion!

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:52 pm
by Monster
Drunken Dribbler 22 wrote:
Camden0916 wrote:
sjm34 wrote:I have a legitimate question about this whole incident.

What did I miss in all the media coverage that somehow made this about Race? I get the police brutality angle, but I see nothing that tells me his race had anything to do with what happened.


Agreed. Some people are just bad human beings. Somewhere along the way this became a race issue out of no where. Weird. It's almost like there's a political agenda at play here, which is disgusting.


Agree with you both. I've read a lot of great posts in this thread and I'm not surprised, because this board is awesome (I usually read more than I write). I'd just echo what most of you said. It's pretty bizarre that only one post in the thread really left me scratching my head. I'm a little turned off by the NBA right now (even more than usual), but I'm sure I'll come around by the time the wolves play again. Thanks everyone for the great place to come and read and write on occasion!


I think there is a fair point however I do think it's fair to consider context. Do you think race had something to do with Ahmaud Aubrey's death? The Amy Cooper video was really disgusting to me in multiple ways and that was clearly about race. Floyd got murdered in the street. What are people supposed to think? Yes it's possible race may have not been the factor. It's pretty easy to see how people would see it that way. Is it reality...?

Let's say race had nothing to do with Floyd's death. Do you want change In terms of police brutality? Justice for George Floyd? As many have said here things don't have to be one or the other. Perception isn't reality but if it's a reality for many I think it's worth considering what we can do to change that reality if its at all reasonable to do so. There is clearly some work to do. Could some agendas actually undermine that? Yes it's possible. How can we come together? Isn't that what we all want? I don't have answers or anything I'm still trying to sort things out myself.

Having said that I think I know a little of what you are getting at. I can think specifically of a friend I've known for over 30 years she is one of the nicest people but from social media posts It feels like she is going too far to me. It's social media I haven't talked to her in person about these things. I know her I know she really does care and has passion for people. Even knowing all that...some of her rhetoric bothers me. What might I read from someone I don't know and make a judgement on what they think? I have to fight to keep and open mind but as a former professor and now friend said...not enough for it to fall out. Lol I hope to keep an agenda from sucking out the energy I can put towards doing something good.

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:30 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Gents, once again, I'm not looking to provoke any sort of conflict here, and if by some chance I've done that by sharing this link I do apologize.

However, since this thread exists I do feel compelled to share it here as it is an incredibly good summation of how I feel. If you have the time, I strongly encourage you to give it a watch. 20 minutes of your time is all I ask.

Watch @RealCandaceO's broadcast: Confession: #GeorgeFloyd is neither a martyr or a hero. But I hope his family gets justice.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/cacQmDFlVlFZclBuUlJLTE98MU1ZR05rbFlhWVpKdwY9fnE4tU_dE5wAe2BV7AqrEsJWzZMYcXMdJsJbf5E1

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:36 pm
by apollotsg [enjin:6592798]
watching the documentary 13th on Netflix may help explain some of the why.

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:41 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
Camden wrote:
sjm34 wrote:I have a legitimate question about this whole incident.

What did I miss in all the media coverage that somehow made this about Race? I get the police brutality angle, but I see nothing that tells me his race had anything to do with what happened.


Agreed. Some people are just bad human beings. Somewhere along the way this became a race issue out of no where. Weird. It's almost like there's a political agenda at play here, which is disgusting.



To be fair, I think part of the frustration is that the police have gotten the benefit of the doubt for the past 20 years... 40 years... 80 years... et al.

I think we're a mostly (only?) white crew here. But if not, I'd be interested to hear from any black guys here about their thoughts or if they have any anecdotal stories. I've heard anecdotal stories from friends in the past.

I've known cops. Most were pretty cool. More than one said or did something that made me take a second look. One was an outright racist asshole.

George Floyd died. That sucks. But I'd venture a guess that the protesting is about Floyd... and those that came before him.

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:26 pm
by thedoper
I guess its about race because white criminals dont get their windpipes crushed when they get arrested for tax evasion and insider trading.

Re: OT - Making Sense of Tragedy

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:55 pm
by Monster
Camden0916 wrote:Gents, once again, I'm not looking to provoke any sort of conflict here, and if by some chance I've done that by sharing this link I do apologize.

However, since this thread exists I do feel compelled to share it here as it is an incredibly good summation of how I feel. If you have the time, I strongly encourage you to give it a watch. 20 minutes of your time is all I ask.

Watch @RealCandaceO's broadcast: Confession: #GeorgeFloyd is neither a martyr or a hero. But I hope his family gets justice.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/cacQmDFlVlFZclBuUlJLTE98MU1ZR05rbFlhWVpKdwY9fnE4tU_dE5wAe2BV7AqrEsJWzZMYcXMdJsJbf5E1


Cam I watched a few minutes enough I think I get where she was going and some of what your view is. There are some worthwhile points to consider.

FWIW Earlier this week I watched a Zoom meeting from a local church who had a panel to discuss George Floyd. This isn't a church I attend but it's in my neighborhood and I've attended a number of events there. Some of my friends from my church were curious what the meeting at this church was because we would like to do something in our church to make some sort of difference. There were various Panelists mostly local that spoke and a some were pretty intense! One of the panelists was a police Chaplin and I always find it interesting listening to people who volunteer their time doing that because you know they are out there seeing stuff...pretty real stuff not just taking care of their congregation etc. In this case she had a relationship with police officers and Obviously a vested interest in the black community As well. Near the end of the session the pastor delicately asked a question about how George Floyd being referred to as a Martyr felt to the black panelists. The first panelist said he did not like that. He said a martyr knows they are giving their lives for something. They know they are giving up their life maybe for something better. He said Floyd died. He pleaded for his life and the panelist didn't find that there was any glory in it and Floyd should not be considered a martyr. I thought it was an interesting question and answer at the time but immediately jumped to my mind when seeing the title and then even more when watching part of the video.