Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

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kekgeek
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

Post by kekgeek »

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Both Nowell and Beasley are good offensive players. It's nice to have two pretty good offensive players coming off the bench at the 1-2-3 position. It feels like it's been a while since we've had that.

No doubt Nowell is a better shot creator, which is more valuable because he can initiate offense at times. He always give you a second ball handler (or a third, if he's out there with Ant and a PG). Good point on that Q. He's clearly able to score at all three levels, shoot well, and dish the ball to the open shooting. It does indicate that he could be a breakout candidate if he gets more playing time.

At the same time Beasley's volume of 3s was really impressive last year, and, as people mentioned, was really important for helping us stretch the floor. So I'd hesitate to trade him just to get more time for Nowell.

The problem, as people have pointed out, is that they're not great defenders. And we really need at least one of those guys to be able to play both ways.

Just off the top of my head, here's the roster next year, assuming we keep Prince and Minott is on a two-way. Okogie is sure to pick up his QO, and I do like having him around as injury insurance and to give us a bit more defense (please, please please, Josh, just work on your 3 pointer and get it up to at least 32%). Jaden, by the way, is another guy who needs to work on his 3. I love his defense, and he can do more on offensive than Okogie obviously. But we really need him to be able to stretch the floor a bit as well. He's got a decent FT%, so it should be possible.

Beverley/McLaughlin/Bolmaro
DLO/Beasley/Nowell/Okogie
Ant/Prince/Moore/Minott
Vando/McDaniels
KAT/Naz/Kessler

There's some flexibility in that roster and some guys with multiple skills on offense. And while it does still seem to have too many one-way guys, there are some guys who can play two-ways too. I do wish we had more of a star-level forward to start between Ant and KAT, but the depth of that team is not too bad, assuming Prince can play the 4 for stretches. Lots of interesting lineup combos Finch could try, including with Nowell on the floor.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Both Nowell and Beasley are good offensive players. It's nice to have two pretty good offensive players coming off the bench at the 1-2-3 position. It feels like it's been a while since we've had that.

No doubt Nowell is a better shot creator, which is more valuable because he can initiate offense at times. He always give you a second ball handler (or a third, if he's out there with Ant and a PG). Good point on that Q. He's clearly able to score at all three levels, shoot well, and dish the ball to the open shooting. It does indicate that he could be a breakout candidate if he gets more playing time.

At the same time Beasley's volume of 3s was really impressive last year, and, as people mentioned, was really important for helping us stretch the floor. So I'd hesitate to trade him just to get more time for Nowell.

The problem, as people have pointed out, is that they're not great defenders. And we really need at least one of those guys to be able to play both ways.

Just off the top of my head, here's the roster next year, assuming we keep Prince and Minott is on a two-way. Okogie is sure to pick up his QO, and I do like having him around as injury insurance and to give us a bit more defense (please, please please, Josh, just work on your 3 pointer and get it up to at least 32%). Jaden, by the way, is another guy who needs to work on his 3. I love his defense, and he can do more on offensive than Okogie obviously. But we really need him to be able to stretch the floor a bit as well. He's got a decent FT%, so it should be possible.

Beverley/McLaughlin/Bolmaro
DLO/Beasley/Nowell/Okogie
Ant/Prince/Moore/Minott
Vando/McDaniels
KAT/Naz/Kessler

There's some flexibility in that roster and some guys with multiple skills on offense. And while it does still seem to have too many one-way guys, there are some guys who can play two-ways too. I do wish we had more of a star-level forward to start between Ant and KAT, but the depth of that team is not too bad, assuming Prince can play the 4 for stretches. Lots of interesting lineup combos Finch could try, including with Nowell on the floor.


Solid write up, on the Okogie thing though it sounds like the Wolves are not offering him the QO making him an UFA. Okogie has played his final games with the Wolves. Will be curious to see what his contract looks like on another team. Watch he will be hitting 38% of his 3s next year.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

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Ken's right that Okogie will be moving on. One thing to keep in mind is that the Wolves biggest weakness last season was the team's really poor defensive rebounding. At a minimum, that means upgrading from Vando as the starting big next to KAT. But that's not enough because Vando actually rebounded well. That means the upgrade at his position has to be an even better defensive rebounder. It also means that the Wolves need to upgrade their rebounding at other positions. Part of that will be current roster players improving their effort on the defensive boards. But another part of that requires the Wolves to consider upgrading the roster at another position or two in the rotation. I love McDaniels, but he's a surprisingly poor rebounder given his length and position. Hopefully that aspect of his game will improve with effort and by increasing his physical strength. Nevertheless, the Wolves should think about adding a better rebounding SF to the roster. I'll note also that DLO isn't a particularly good rebounder at his position either. But I don't see anyone out there who could replace him and the other things he provides.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Hey Lip, I'm not sure what the stats would say, but I thought DLO did a decent job of rebounding his position last year. At least from the eye test. The other thing is in regard to Jaden. He doesn't do a good job of corralling rebounds, but no one on our team has better box-out technique. He may not be getting the numbers, but the guy he is responsible for isn't getting it either. There is probably a stat for individual rebound percentage vs your closest competitor. I bet he scores pretty well in that area.
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Monster
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

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CoolBreeze44 wrote:Hey Lip, I'm not sure what the stats would say, but I thought DLO did a decent job of rebounding his position last year. At least from the eye test. The other thing is in regard to Jaden. He doesn't do a good job of corralling rebounds, but no one on our team has better box-out technique. He may not be getting the numbers, but the guy he is responsible for isn't getting it either. There is probably a stat for individual rebound percentage vs your closest competitor. I bet he scores pretty well in that area.


He also spends a lot of time defending on the perimeter. Sometimes those guys that are really good defenders playing their guy don't get rebounds.
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Monster
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

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kekgeek1 wrote:
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Both Nowell and Beasley are good offensive players. It's nice to have two pretty good offensive players coming off the bench at the 1-2-3 position. It feels like it's been a while since we've had that.

No doubt Nowell is a better shot creator, which is more valuable because he can initiate offense at times. He always give you a second ball handler (or a third, if he's out there with Ant and a PG). Good point on that Q. He's clearly able to score at all three levels, shoot well, and dish the ball to the open shooting. It does indicate that he could be a breakout candidate if he gets more playing time.

At the same time Beasley's volume of 3s was really impressive last year, and, as people mentioned, was really important for helping us stretch the floor. So I'd hesitate to trade him just to get more time for Nowell.

The problem, as people have pointed out, is that they're not great defenders. And we really need at least one of those guys to be able to play both ways.

Just off the top of my head, here's the roster next year, assuming we keep Prince and Minott is on a two-way. Okogie is sure to pick up his QO, and I do like having him around as injury insurance and to give us a bit more defense (please, please please, Josh, just work on your 3 pointer and get it up to at least 32%). Jaden, by the way, is another guy who needs to work on his 3. I love his defense, and he can do more on offensive than Okogie obviously. But we really need him to be able to stretch the floor a bit as well. He's got a decent FT%, so it should be possible.

Beverley/McLaughlin/Bolmaro
DLO/Beasley/Nowell/Okogie
Ant/Prince/Moore/Minott
Vando/McDaniels
KAT/Naz/Kessler

There's some flexibility in that roster and some guys with multiple skills on offense. And while it does still seem to have too many one-way guys, there are some guys who can play two-ways too. I do wish we had more of a star-level forward to start between Ant and KAT, but the depth of that team is not too bad, assuming Prince can play the 4 for stretches. Lots of interesting lineup combos Finch could try, including with Nowell on the floor.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Both Nowell and Beasley are good offensive players. It's nice to have two pretty good offensive players coming off the bench at the 1-2-3 position. It feels like it's been a while since we've had that.

No doubt Nowell is a better shot creator, which is more valuable because he can initiate offense at times. He always give you a second ball handler (or a third, if he's out there with Ant and a PG). Good point on that Q. He's clearly able to score at all three levels, shoot well, and dish the ball to the open shooting. It does indicate that he could be a breakout candidate if he gets more playing time.

At the same time Beasley's volume of 3s was really impressive last year, and, as people mentioned, was really important for helping us stretch the floor. So I'd hesitate to trade him just to get more time for Nowell.

The problem, as people have pointed out, is that they're not great defenders. And we really need at least one of those guys to be able to play both ways.

Just off the top of my head, here's the roster next year, assuming we keep Prince and Minott is on a two-way. Okogie is sure to pick up his QO, and I do like having him around as injury insurance and to give us a bit more defense (please, please please, Josh, just work on your 3 pointer and get it up to at least 32%). Jaden, by the way, is another guy who needs to work on his 3. I love his defense, and he can do more on offensive than Okogie obviously. But we really need him to be able to stretch the floor a bit as well. He's got a decent FT%, so it should be possible.

Beverley/McLaughlin/Bolmaro
DLO/Beasley/Nowell/Okogie
Ant/Prince/Moore/Minott
Vando/McDaniels
KAT/Naz/Kessler

There's some flexibility in that roster and some guys with multiple skills on offense. And while it does still seem to have too many one-way guys, there are some guys who can play two-ways too. I do wish we had more of a star-level forward to start between Ant and KAT, but the depth of that team is not too bad, assuming Prince can play the 4 for stretches. Lots of interesting lineup combos Finch could try, including with Nowell on the floor.


Solid write up, on the Okogie thing though it sounds like the Wolves are not offering him the QO making him an UFA. Okogie has played his final games with the Wolves. Will be curious to see what his contract looks like on another team. Watch he will be hitting 38% of his 3s next year.


The Wolves were never going to offer the QO to Okogie. That was a bunch of money (almost 6 million) for a guy that IMO MIGHT get 4 million a year but there is a good chance all he gets is the vet min. Jon K has said maybe the Wolves might bring him back if nobody signs him and they have a spot and they can get him for the vet min. Personally I think I'm ready to move on unless the roster really changes. I'll always be cheering for the guy and think he can help a team as an energy defensive guy.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

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I don't see a roster spot for Okogie. If we bring Okogie and Prince back, our roster will be full even if we sign Minott to a two-way deal.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

lipoli390 wrote:I don't see a roster spot for Okogie. If we bring Okogie and Prince back, our roster will be full even if we sign Minott to a two-way deal.


Absolutely right, Lip. I don't think Minnesota should bring back Josh Okogie even on a minimum deal. There's nothing the Wolves need from him.
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kekgeek
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

Post by kekgeek »

Camden wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:I don't see a roster spot for Okogie. If we bring Okogie and Prince back, our roster will be full even if we sign Minott to a two-way deal.


Absolutely right, Lip. I don't think Minnesota should bring back Josh Okogie even on a minimum deal. There's nothing the Wolves need from him.


Obviously okogie never developed a shot but in my opinion the reason he is useless for the wolves is he never leaned how to he the roll man. Gary Payton 2 and Bruce Brown can't shoot either but both learned how to be above average roll men and put other defenders in unusual spots. Okogie never developed here, good luck on his next team.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

Post by Lipoli390 »

kekgeek1 wrote:
Camden wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:I don't see a roster spot for Okogie. If we bring Okogie and Prince back, our roster will be full even if we sign Minott to a two-way deal.


Absolutely right, Lip. I don't think Minnesota should bring back Josh Okogie even on a minimum deal. There's nothing the Wolves need from him.


Obviously okogie never developed a shot but in my opinion the reason he is useless for the wolves is he never leaned how to he the roll man. Gary Payton 2 and Bruce Brown can't shoot either but both learned how to be above average roll men and put other defenders in unusual spots. Okogie never developed here, good luck on his next team.


Excellent point, Kek. Okogie just never developed into a pro basketball player. Shooting has obviously been an issue for him. But like many others, what has really undercut his value and might ultimately drive him out of the League in a few years of not sooner is what appears to be a low basketball IQ.
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Monster
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Re: Time to clear the way for Jaylen Nowell

Post by Monster »

lipoli390 wrote:
kekgeek1 wrote:
Camden wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:I don't see a roster spot for Okogie. If we bring Okogie and Prince back, our roster will be full even if we sign Minott to a two-way deal.


Absolutely right, Lip. I don't think Minnesota should bring back Josh Okogie even on a minimum deal. There's nothing the Wolves need from him.


Obviously okogie never developed a shot but in my opinion the reason he is useless for the wolves is he never leaned how to he the roll man. Gary Payton 2 and Bruce Brown can't shoot either but both learned how to be above average roll men and put other defenders in unusual spots. Okogie never developed here, good luck on his next team.


Excellent point, Kek. Okogie just never developed into a pro basketball player. Shooting has obviously been an issue for him. But like many others, what has really undercut his value and might ultimately drive him out of the League in a few years of not sooner is what appears to be a low basketball IQ.


I disagree that Okogie will be out of the league because his basketball IQ. What is a big separation between Gary Payton II and Bruce Brown compared to Okogie is those guys have the ability to at least be secondary ball handlers and play makers. They did that in college also. Gary Payton toool till he was 28 to find his spot on a roster with multiple HOFers a s HOF coach and some of the best shooters of all times and a big that passes like a PG. I will not be surprised if Okogie lands in the right situation that he offers some legit value off the bench or a couple years from now emerges from playing in some other league and finds a way to utilize his skills in a more useful way. The Wolves just aren't the right spot for him. They need more shooting.
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