Boy did we mess up passing on Jamal Murray

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Murray was who I wanted.

Lipoli - Sadly I think Kris Dunn is at his peak. He is 3 years older than Murray.

Bleedspeed - Sadly, you're right about Dunn. As for Murray, I recall that you, Cam and I all wanted to draft him, although I was on the fence between Murray and Hield.

We should find that old thread and out the Dunn fans!

[Lipoli390]

Murray was who I wanted.

Lipoli - Sadly I think Kris Dunn is at his peak. He is 3 years older than Murray.

Bleedspeed - Sadly, you're right about Dunn. As for Murray, I recall that you, Cam and I all wanted to draft him, although I was on the fence between Murray and Hield.

We should find that old thread and out the Dunn fans!

Lol. There weren't many outside the Wolves front office.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Couple things here.

1) Dunn has become probably one of the top 5 defensive guards in the league. He is an absolute menace, and is tough as nails. I think he actually would play a key "Marcus Smart" type role on a good team. His talents are lost on the Bulls from a W-L standpoint. Their defense is massively better with him on court, but the rest of the players are so atrocious, his talents barely help. He would fit an important role on this Wolves team, being able to guard 3 positions at an elite level.

2) For all of Murray's offensive talents, he is still a fairly horrible defensive player from when I have seen him play. I only bring this up because every "offensive exclusive" talent in the upcoming draft gets scrutinized to no end. Toppin, Ball, Edwards, etc. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend Murray is perfection while these other guys have "major holes", as it is stated a lot on this board.

[Lipoli390]

Couple things here.

1) Dunn has become probably one of the top 5 defensive guards in the league. He is an absolute menace, and is tough as nails. I think he actually would play a key "Marcus Smart" type role on a good team. His talents are lost on the Bulls from a W-L standpoint. Their defense is massively better with him on court, but the rest of the players are so atrocious, his talents barely help. He would fit an important role on this Wolves team, being able to guard 3 positions at an elite level.

2) For all of Murray's offensive talents, he is still a fairly horrible defensive player from when I have seen him play. I only bring this up because every "offensive exclusive" talent in the upcoming draft gets scrutinized to no end. Toppin, Ball, Edwards, etc. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend Murray is perfection while these other guys have "major holes", as it is stated a lot on this board.

I think you're overstating Dunn's role here and his defensive prowess as an NBA player. But I don't dispute that he's a good defender and tough. As for Murray, I don't think any of us have ever suggested he's a paragon of perfection. To the contrary, I've acknowledged his lack of defensive prowess and highlighted the Jared/Murray duo as a model for the Wolves who also have a Center/PG duo who are terrific offensively but defensively challenged. I think a lot of us are focusing on the defensive shortcomings of some draft prospects mainly because the Wolves are a bad defensive team with a core of two really bad defensive players. If we had Embiid and Simmons instead of KAT and Russell, I'd be far more interested in Toppin and Edwards and wouldn't be too worried about their defensive issues.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Couple things here.

1) Dunn has become probably one of the top 5 defensive guards in the league. He is an absolute menace, and is tough as nails. I think he actually would play a key "Marcus Smart" type role on a good team. His talents are lost on the Bulls from a W-L standpoint. Their defense is massively better with him on court, but the rest of the players are so atrocious, his talents barely help. He would fit an important role on this Wolves team, being able to guard 3 positions at an elite level.

2) For all of Murray's offensive talents, he is still a fairly horrible defensive player from when I have seen him play. I only bring this up because every "offensive exclusive" talent in the upcoming draft gets scrutinized to no end. Toppin, Ball, Edwards, etc. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend Murray is perfection while these other guys have "major holes", as it is stated a lot on this board.

Very true. This is why I wasn't as down on the pick at the time. Remember, we had budding scorers Zach LaVine and Andrew Wiggins at the time. I felt we needed some defensive toughness and he had the size to guard either guard position. Unfortunately, like soooooo many Wolves rookies drafted before or since, he couldn't effing shoot worth a damn.

As others have correctly pointed out here, getting an offensively gifted PG is far more impactful than a defensively gifted PG. I just didn't realize how poor his offense from Providence would translate. And as it turns out, LaVine and Wiggins never turned into the players we hoped they would be either. If they had and we had kept Dunn, I'm not so sure he wouldn't be a fit since theoretically LaVine, Wiggins, and KAT would do most of the scoring and playmaking.

[bleedspeed]

Murray was who I wanted.

Lipoli - Sadly I think Kris Dunn is at his peak. He is 3 years older than Murray.

Bleedspeed - Sadly, you're right about Dunn. As for Murray, I recall that you, Cam and I all wanted to draft him, although I was on the fence between Murray and Hield.

I liked that Murray was younger. I thought Murray would have fit nicely next to Rubio. I thought a small-ball lineup of Rubio, Murray, LaVine, Wiggins, and Towns would be explosive.

[Lipoli390]

Couple things here.

1) Dunn has become probably one of the top 5 defensive guards in the league. He is an absolute menace, and is tough as nails. I think he actually would play a key "Marcus Smart" type role on a good team. His talents are lost on the Bulls from a W-L standpoint. Their defense is massively better with him on court, but the rest of the players are so atrocious, his talents barely help. He would fit an important role on this Wolves team, being able to guard 3 positions at an elite level.

2) For all of Murray's offensive talents, he is still a fairly horrible defensive player from when I have seen him play. I only bring this up because every "offensive exclusive" talent in the upcoming draft gets scrutinized to no end. Toppin, Ball, Edwards, etc. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend Murray is perfection while these other guys have "major holes", as it is stated a lot on this board.

Very true. This is why I wasn't as down on the pick at the time. Remember, we had budding scorers Zach LaVine and Andrew Wiggins at the time. I felt we needed some defensive toughness and he had the size to guard either guard position. Unfortunately, like soooooo many Wolves rookies drafted before or since, he couldn't effing shoot worth a damn.

As others have correctly pointed out here, getting an offensively gifted PG is far more impactful than a defensively gifted PG. I just didn't realize how poor his offense from Providence would translate. And as it turns out, LaVine and Wiggins never turned into the players we hoped they would be either. If they had and we had kept Dunn, I'm not so sure he wouldn't be a fit since theoretically LaVine, Wiggins, and KAT would do most of the scoring and playmaking.

Just another example of why you use lottery picks to draft for talent, not fit or need. You have to keep taking home run swings with lottery picks (and I'd say for any first round pick) because you typically can't be sure that your last swing drove the ball out of the park. As it turned out, both the Wiggins and LaVine swings fell short of the outfield wall.

[kekgeek]

I read some of the 2016 draft board (i skimmed it).

Some highlights for some laughs.

-Cam threatened to quit the board

-Cam most vocal about Murray

-Kahns wanted Dunn

-lip and myself kept flip flopping between Murray and hield but were fine with dunn

- Cam and Cool were like best friends in their love of Murray. Brought a tear to my eye.

- Bleed loved sabonis, nice get.

- l really miss LST, such a great board member.

- thefuture wanted to trade for Jimmy

- lip didn't want to trade bazz for a late lottery pick. Also though Thon Maker had all star potential

-I had a Henry Ellenson phase

-I love this board, we fight a lot and we have lost good members over the years but it's been a really fun board.

- Favorite part was form favorite TeamRicky. Some really funny battles between him and cam. Ricky got everything wrong. It was so funny.

- favorite post: "I like Poeltl 100 times better than Jamal Murray. Poeltl can play good defense and Murray, well he is a horrible defender, almost as bad as Bazz. Also Murray is ball dominant and we don't need his ball hogging ways when we have 3 young guys to feed. He'd clash with our young guys the way Dion Waiters did in Cleveland. I'd rather Gary Payton II than Murray (even though Murray is mocked much higher) as Gary is not an alpha scorer like Murray, but sure can defend well and pass the ball." -teamricky

[worldK]

I read some of the 2016 draft board (i skimmed it).

Some highlights for some laughs.

-Cam threatened to quit the board

-Cam most vocal about Murray

-Kahns wanted Dunn

-lip and myself kept flip flopping between Murray and hield but were fine with dunn

- Cam and Cool were like best friends in their love of Murray. Brought a tear to my eye.

- Bleed loved sabonis, nice get.

- l really miss LST, such a great board member.

- thefuture wanted to trade for Jimmy

- lip didn't want to trade bazz for a late lottery pick. Also though Thon Maker had all star potential

-I had a Henry Ellenson phase

-I love this board, we fight a lot and we have lost good members over the years but it's been a really fun board.

- Favorite part was form favorite TeamRicky. Some really funny battles between him and cam. Ricky got everything wrong. It was so funny

- favorite post: "I like Poeltl 100 times better than Jamal Murray. Poeltl can play good defense and Murray, well he is a horrible defender, almost as bad as Bazz. Also Murray is ball dominant and we don't need his ball hogging ways when we have 3 young guys to feed. He'd clash with our young guys the way Dion Waiters did in Cleveland. I'd rather Gary Payton II than Murray (even though Murray is mocked much higher) as Gary is not an alpha scorer like Murray, but sure can defend well and pass the ball." -teamricky

Lol. Great stuff keek. Thanks for posting this.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?