When is Towns asking out?

[TheFuture]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

If you cannot/are not willing to shoot in today's NBA then you are not worth risking a franchise's development on. It all shows in the playoffs. No way I would move KAT for Simmons.

KAT does not play great defense, but his ability to be an instant bucket from anywhere on the court as a 5 is obscenely undervalued. It changes everything for his own team and game planning for opposing teams.

I would not consider training him until his last year.

His instant bucket ability clearly is not that important to winning because he's put up big time stats for years now and it's done nothing to help us win. Meanwhile the defense Ben plays is winning basketball. Same with how he pushes the pace and sets up his teammates for success. And the beauty of it is Russell is still here to be the offensive closer if Ben never starts shooting 3's. Jokic is not a good 3pt shooter as the anchor of their offense. You just need to be able to score the ball as the primary ball handler which Ben can still do without shooting 3's.

It is not complicated. You do not move a better player that fits into any system for a lesser player you have to build around. A player that needs the ball in his hands to be most effective, and cannot and refuses to shoot a basketball. Jokic does not shoot like KAT from 3, but he is a threat to shoot. Ben is a complete non-factor from 3, which is a huge issue in today's league. You've witnessed it from Giannis in the playoffs, who is 10x the player Ben is, and will at least attempt a 3, but still loses.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

If you cannot/are not willing to shoot in today's NBA then you are not worth risking a franchise's development on. It all shows in the playoffs. No way I would move KAT for Simmons.

KAT does not play great defense, but his ability to be an instant bucket from anywhere on the court as a 5 is obscenely undervalued. It changes everything for his own team and game planning for opposing teams.

I would not consider training him until his last year.

His instant bucket ability clearly is not that important to winning because he's put up big time stats for years now and it's done nothing to help us win. Meanwhile the defense Ben plays is winning basketball. Same with how he pushes the pace and sets up his teammates for success. And the beauty of it is Russell is still here to be the offensive closer if Ben never starts shooting 3's. Jokic is not a good 3pt shooter as the anchor of their offense. You just need to be able to score the ball as the primary ball handler which Ben can still do without shooting 3's.

It is not complicated. You do not move a better player that fits into any system for a lesser player you have to build around. A player that needs the ball in his hands to be most effective, and cannot and refuses to shoot a basketball. Jokic does not shoot like KAT from 3, but he is a threat to shoot. Ben is a complete non-factor from 3, which is a huge issue in today's league. You've witnessed it from Giannis in the playoffs, who is 10x the player Ben is, and will at least attempt a 3, but still loses.

You have to actually make the playoffs for playoff issues to be a thing and KAT can't even do that. You can prop up KAT and his empty stats all you want. He hasn't won because those stats don't make his team or his teammates better to the point where he leads the team to the playoffs which an 8 seed really isn't that big of an ask for someone who is so great. Also Ben is not someone you have to do anything special to build around. Shooting and rebounding. That's it. Every team needs that. That's not some special requirement that only teams with Ben need. He also doesn't need the ball in his hands because he's very good at cutting and crashing the glass (2 offensive boards a game). Literally the only thing he doesn't do is shoot 3's. He can do everything else so being out because he doesn't have 1 skill when he is elite at multiple others and you can play him anywhere 1-5 is ridiculous to me. You bring in the Giannis comparison and Giannis was the MVP. Who gives a shit if he hasn't won a title yet? He's the best player in the league. If Ben can be top 5 because he discount Giannis that's better than Towns will ever be. KAT isn't better than Simmons at the end of the day because Simmons plays both ends of the court.

[TheFuture]

If he doesn't show up and play defense this year on a level we haven't seen I really don't care when the request to get out comes. He'd be doing us a favor at that point. His reputation nationally is not good enough where he's going to get to pick his landing spot so we'll be able to get a haul for him. I just wish the timing was better where Harden to Philly, Simmons to MN, Towns to Hou made sense but MN and Philly are trying to see if they can make what they have work one more year and I just don't see Harden lasting the whole year in Houston.

Man, do I love your trade idea. Then we could trade DLO too and build around the guard combination of Simmons and Edwards.

And how long will Simmons be content here? I think the question answers itself. The only way to build a contender here is through the draft. This Wolves organization could have done just that if, after trading for Butler, they had drafted Murray instead of Dunn, and Collins instead of Patton. Or if they had traded Wiggins for Butler, it's been widely reported that the Wolves could have kept their own first round pick. What if they had done that and drafted Donovan Mitchell to pair with KAT. They could have used the Wiggins money to help keep Butler. Imagine a combo of KAT, Butler and Mitchell. Butler could have gotten the contract he wanted and Mitchell is his kind of player. As another scenario, what if they had drafted the Greek Freak instead of Bazz? And note that the Wolves picked Glen Robinson one slot ahead of Jokic in the 2014 second round. Of course, last year they traded up for Culver instead of staying put and drafting Herro with the option to trade Saric for some other asset. The list goes on.

Bottom line is that the Wolves can't expect to rebuild or retool by trading for a star in his prime and expect that star to stay here - unless that player is seriously flawed like DLO. And even then, the cost is high and it probably won't be enough. If the time comes when the Wolves have to trade KAT, they'll have to trade DLO too and load up on future first round picks. In other words, they'll need to amass valuable draft assets and then rely on the draft and undrafted free agents for a complete rebuild from the ground up, hopefully accompanied by the development of Edwards into the player he's capable of being. Assuming we have a really good front office, presumably under new leadership, maybe this franchise can finally get it right.

In the meantime, it's all in on KAT, DLO and Beasley. That's the trio Rosas wanted to build around with his system. That trio will succeed or the organization will have to blow it up, start again and rely on the draft. That's the reality for this cold-weather, low attendance, mid-market, midwestern franchise with a reputation for losing and dysfunction.

I think a Russell/Edwards/Simmons team long-term could be a title contender. Much more so than what we have now. I truly think Simmons is that good and Russell is the perfect #2 for a guy like Ben as someone who can play really well off the ball and also run the offense when you need a bucket. Edwards also is the kind of athlete that could thrive next to Ben in transition and those 2 attacking the basket could be a handful for teams to defend. People don't understand that Simmons is THE versatile guy that good teams are built on. He can be your small ball 5 or he can be your PG. Literally just make sure you have shooters and rebounders around them and I think that team has a legit chance at a title and that's what would keep Ben here. There's not just one way to build a contender. Even OKC didn't win a title with Westbrook/Harden/Durant so to put all your eggs in that basket as the only means to win a title is foolish. You win titles by acquiring elite talent and Ben is that talent. Ben can hang with all the best players in the league defensively and he likes to play with a high pace keeping them from getting to take breathers on the court unless they slow the game down in their half-court. He's stuck with Joel right now and their need to play half-court just to keep Joel on the court and not huffing and puffing on the bench has really held Ben back from just getting out there and running.

If you cannot/are not willing to shoot in today's NBA then you are not worth risking a franchise's development on. It all shows in the playoffs. No way I would move KAT for Simmons.

KAT does not play great defense, but his ability to be an instant bucket from anywhere on the court as a 5 is obscenely undervalued. It changes everything for his own team and game planning for opposing teams.

I would not consider training him until his last year.

His instant bucket ability clearly is not that important to winning because he's put up big time stats for years now and it's done nothing to help us win. Meanwhile the defense Ben plays is winning basketball. Same with how he pushes the pace and sets up his teammates for success. And the beauty of it is Russell is still here to be the offensive closer if Ben never starts shooting 3's. Jokic is not a good 3pt shooter as the anchor of their offense. You just need to be able to score the ball as the primary ball handler which Ben can still do without shooting 3's.

It is not complicated. You do not move a better player that fits into any system for a lesser player you have to build around. A player that needs the ball in his hands to be most effective, and cannot and refuses to shoot a basketball. Jokic does not shoot like KAT from 3, but he is a threat to shoot. Ben is a complete non-factor from 3, which is a huge issue in today's league. You've witnessed it from Giannis in the playoffs, who is 10x the player Ben is, and will at least attempt a 3, but still loses.

You have to actually make the playoffs for playoff issues to be a thing and KAT can't even do that. You can prop up KAT and his empty stats all you want. He hasn't won because those stats don't make his team or his teammates better to the point where he leads the team to the playoffs which an 8 seed really isn't that big of an ask for someone who is so great. Also Ben is not someone you have to do anything special to build around. Shooting and rebounding. That's it. Every team needs that. That's not some special requirement that only teams with Ben need. He also doesn't need the ball in his hands because he's very good at cutting and crashing the glass (2 offensive boards a game). Literally the only thing he doesn't do is shoot 3's. He can do everything else so being out because he doesn't have 1 skill when he is elite at multiple others and you can play him anywhere 1-5 is ridiculous to me. You bring in the Giannis comparison and Giannis was the MVP. Who gives a shit if he hasn't won a title yet? He's the best player in the league. If Ben can be top 5 because he discount Giannis that's better than Towns will ever be. KAT isn't better than Simmons at the end of the day because Simmons plays both ends of the court.

If Minnesota was in the East, they would have made the playoffs.

The 76ers are not viable in the playoffs because an opponent can collapse on him, negating his only offensive threat. I do not care how good you are defensively in the regular season. See simmons, then look at Giannis and Gobert.

Defense does win championships, but only with guys who defend and can score at multiple levels.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.

As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).

---

As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.

His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.

One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.

As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).

---

As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.

His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.

One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.

I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?

Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.

As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).

---

As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.

His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.

One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.

I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?

Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.

Sure. Despite what we're sold... basketball is still a team game. And small samples are... well... small sample sizes.

That 76ers team without Embiid (won 9 straight games actually, because they started the playoffs without him and won there, too)... used this rotation to do something the Wolves haven't done for nearly 20 years:

Simmons
Covington
Saric (missed 4 or 5 of the games entirely)
Redick
Amir Johnson
_____
Ilyasova
Bellinelli
McConnell
Holmes
Fultz

Interestingly, the Wolves had two of those guys!

[Lipoli390]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

I agree. KAT made the playoffs with 47 wins when he was finally paired with another all-star caliber player in Jimmy Butler. And the team would have probably ended up a top 4 out 5 seed if Butler hadn't missed the last 15 games or so. KAT has one glaring deficiency in his game - namely defense. But he's dominant offensively and on the glass. He has a positive net plus/minus and the team made the playoffs the one season he had another all-star caliber player on the roster.

KAT's not the problem. The problem has been this organization's inability to surround him with talent except for a short-term "fix" that imploded after one season. This organization has had one opportunity after another to add all-star caliber talent around KAT and they've failed miserably. Jamaal Murray and John Collins are only two examples. Other high-caliber talent the Wolves missed on include players like Tyler Hero. This year, I think they missed on Wiseman and on trade-down possibilities like Vassell and Okoro.

Trading KAT for Simmons won't' change the fundamental problem - i.e., a bad organization that consistently makes poor draft and other player personnel decisions. The team will be no better with Simmons instead of KAT and I think it would actually be worse. In any event, Simmons will want out after one season of losing and no sign of help on the way. That's the history of this franchise from KG to Kevin Love to KAT. Like a blind squirrel, they sometimes hit on one nut, but because of their incompetence, they're pathetically unable to find another. McHale was the best front office executive this franchise has ever had and that's a sorry indictment of this organization. Kahn and Thibideau were terrible and my early read on Rosas is that he's almost as bad as those two.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.

As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).

---

As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.

His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.

One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.

I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?

Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.

And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Let's not forget unlike KAT, Simmons actually plays with someone equal to or even better than him in Joel Embiid. The one time KAT had that the Wolves won 47 games in a superior Western Conference and made the playoffs. And besides Embiid, the Sixers have brought in role players and complimentary pieces over the years that are far better than the Okogie's and Dieng's of the world: Al Horford, Josh Richardson, JJ Redick. Tobias Harris.

I'm not the biggest KAT fan, but Khansy's "empty stats" argument on KAT vs. Simmons' greatness rings hollow in this case.

The Wolves would have made the playoffs in the East argument rings pretty damn hollow, too.

As for Simmons vs. Towns... you simply can't ignore how legendary on offense Towns has been... and can be. It's hard to fathom a basketball world where he's not a legit game-changer every night. So I'm still hoping it's one of those crazy statistical unprecedented anomalies that only could happen to the Wolves (see Garnett and Kevin Love).

---

As for Simmons, the three point stuff has run its course just a bit with some of these guys. It's become a tired trope where one thing negates 7 or 8 good to great things players do. And it's kind of a weird time for it after the past Finals. Jimmy Butler has been receiving universal praise for a 4 or 5 game stretch in the Finals.

His best game? He didn't attempt a three pointer. His second best game? He made 1 out of 3.

One other note on Simmons... in 2018, Embiid sat out the last couple of weeks of the regular season. With Simmons the 76ers went 8 - 0 down the stretch. Just for comparison sake... and to be mean... the Wolves haven't won more than 5 games in a row since 2004.

I'm not anti-Simmons, but I find it difficult to compare him and KAT based on winning % in the absence of assessing the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation. Anthony Davis didn't exactly light the world on fire with the Pelicans, yet now he's wearing a ring. Gee, I wonder why?

Also, yes, it is impressive to get 47 wins in the Western Conference in almost any given year. It was especially a dog fight that year.

And most of those wins came with Jimmy on the floor. When he went down KAT couldn't even keep us at .500 and we almost missed the playoffs because of it. Meanwhile every time Embiid goes down the 76ers don't fall off a fucking cliff. You guys are so enamored with this all-world offensive player that you just flat out ignore the the fact that he doesn't play winning basketball. The only time he's ever won was with a guy who only plays winning basketball and does the little things that you need to do to win games. KAT is a proven #2 guy who makes it difficult to win with his defensive deficiency while Ben has stepped up to the plate every time he's been asked to as a number 1 guy and won games. That's why he's going to be the real deal when he gets his own team while KAT will continue to struggle winning games without pairing him with a top 10 player in the league who makes all the winning plays he won't.

If you actually paid attention to my posts instead of being so enamored with your own ranting, you would realize that I actually am NOT the biggest KAT fan. In fact, I wanted to trade him last year!

My argument is less "pro-KAT" than it is saying that Simmons has had better players around him and plays a weaker schedule. Believe it or not, the other 7 or 8 guys in the rotation do matter.

My argument is that they are both in the same tier below the elite players of the league. I don't see Simmons head and shoulders above KAT and your argument based only on team win percentage is weak when you compare the rest of the rosters.