Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

Should we ever meet, I owe you a beer. Or a coffee. Or a burger. Your choice my friend. Good stuff here.

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

I'm sorry man. This is irrational thought. Our guy will be sitting on an operating table tomorrow. I give up.

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

Should we ever meet, I owe you a beer. Or a coffee. Or a burger. Your choice my friend. Good stuff here.

Haha sounds good Cam. I'll say I don't love Dlo, I don't defend him as much as you do, I think you don't rip him enough even though I think you are right he isn't the Wolves biggest problem.

I just have seen him capable of being the best player on NBA playoff team, I've seen him play at All star level. It's not projections he has done that. Was it an outlier? Possibly. I'm just more likely to gamble on a player who has hit that level of play at the NBA level then a compete wildcard with that pick. Also with Wiggins, I don't want to see and Kat play together, we've seen that. Even adding an All NBA player that was only good enough for the 8th seed (that is what I've heard the last 4 years, haha)

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

I'm sorry man. This is irrational thought. Our guy will be sitting on an operating table tomorrow. I give up.

How is this an irrational thought. He is 1 and a half years removed from being the best player on playoff team and an all star. I know we want to hope that every pick will become a stud but for every Lillard or Trae Young there is a Bender or Culver.

I've seen Dlo reach a level only 4 players have done in the last 11 years drafted between 4-7 (it could move to 5 if Randle is named an all star this year).

It's all gambling, you are deciding to gamble on an unknown draft pick (what is fine) and I'm gambling on a player who a year and a half ago was an All star returning to that level.

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

Should we ever meet, I owe you a beer. Or a coffee. Or a burger. Your choice my friend. Good stuff here.

Haha sounds good Cam. I'll say I don't love Dlo, I don't defend him as much as you do, I think you don't rip him enough even though I think you are right he isn't the Wolves biggest problem.

I just have seen him capable of being the best player on NBA playoff team, I've seen him play at All star level. It's not projections he has done that. Was it an outlier? Possibly. I'm just more likely to gamble on a player who has hit that level of play at the NBA level then a compete wildcard with that pick. Also with Wiggins, I don't want to see and Kat play together, we've seen that. Even adding an All NBA player that was only good enough for the 8th seed (that is what I've heard the last 4 years, haha)

That's actually very similar to how I feel about D'Angelo Russell and the trade although I admit it probably doesn't come across that way on this forum. To you guys I'm D-Lo's number one fan when I'm really not. I'll accept that. I just think a lot of the time he gets made out to be the problem with the Wolves, or his many good games go relatively unnoticed, and so I feel like I have to argue against that because it's preposterous to me.

Camden wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I get why Cam would vote no. We all know he is going to defend his original position on anything to the death. But the other 5 who can vote no with a straight face make me wonder. Our guy has had trouble getting on the court since he's been here. When he has played he hasn't been anything but underwhelming. The Wolves stink with and without him on the court. I'm sincerely not sure if we are any better with him playing. We traded one bad contract for another. Wig is still Wig and we can debate forever who is the better asset between he and Russell. But gents, we also gave up critical draft assets! The next two NBA drafts are supposedly terrific for talent, and we are going to miss out on one of them. This poll question really shouldn't even have to be posed. I'm baffled anyone would still be in favor of the trade, unless your a Warrior fan.

This is why I said no. Since 2010 there have been 44 players taken between 4-7 (most likely the pick if the Wolves were to give it up) of those 44 players only 4 of them have been all stars (Young, Porzingis, Lillard, Cousins), so only 9% of players taken in those spots have gotten to the level Dlo is capable of. Is Dlo perfect, hell no. Could this trade blow up. Of course. I would still would rather take the chance on Dlo then another shot in the dark draft pick that recent NBA history shows only a 1/11 chance of getting a player capable of reaching Dlo ability.

If the wolves pick was unprotected this year I would vote yes I would reverse the trade but there is a big difference between the type of player you get at 1-3 compared to 4-7.

Should we ever meet, I owe you a beer. Or a coffee. Or a burger. Your choice my friend. Good stuff here.

Haha sounds good Cam. I'll say I don't love Dlo, I don't defend him as much as you do, I think you don't rip him enough even though I think you are right he isn't the Wolves biggest problem.

I just have seen him capable of being the best player on NBA playoff team, I've seen him play at All star level. It's not projections he has done that. Was it an outlier? Possibly. I'm just more likely to gamble on a player who has hit that level of play at the NBA level then a compete wildcard with that pick. Also with Wiggins, I don't want to see and Kat play together, we've seen that. Even adding an All NBA player that was only good enough for the 8th seed (that is what I've heard the last 4 years, haha)

That's actually very similar to how I feel about D'Angelo Russell and the trade although I admit it probably doesn't come across that way on this forum. To you guys I'm D-Lo's number one fan when I'm really not. I'll accept that. I just think a lot of the time he gets made out to be the problem with the Wolves, or his many good games go relatively unnoticed, and so I feel like I have to argue against that because it's preposterous to me.

You may or may not be DLO's number one fan. Only you know that. But I know you're Cam's #1 fan. And when you take a strong position on an issue or player, that's it. There is no going back. To go back would be an admission that you were wrong about something, And you're simply not capable of that. That's why I completely understand your position in this thread. You I get, the other No votes seem preposterous to me. Although you do seem to have quite a bit of influence over some of the populace here. Maybe that's part of it.

One of the narratives that annoys me is continuing to point to DLO's one All-Star season as evidence of his value. It's true that he was an all-star with the Nets in 2018-9 (albeit only as a replacement for an injured Oladipo) and his raw stats look quite good in that one year...21/7/4 is a very good year...on the surface at least. But dig a little deeper into DLO's best season, and he doesn't look so good anymore. In fact he looks a lot like some struggling 2020-21 Wolves players. Many of us here are fans of efficient scoring, but DLO's eFG% in his all-star year of 51.2% put him in the lower half of the league in shooting efficiency...Jaylen Nowell and Jake Layman both have better eFG%s than that this year. Sports Reference has him as a negative player in his All-Star year with an ORtg of 107 and a DRtg of 110...the player on this year's Wolves team with Rtgs closest to DLO's all-star year is Juancho Hermangomez. Finally, while defensive metrics are flawed in some ways, many of us look to DRPM as one measure of evaluating the defensive impact of a player. In 2018-9 All-Star D'Angelo Russell ranked 499th out of 513 NBA players with a disastrous DRPM of -2.20! Only Anthony Edwards has a worse DRPM among all Wolves players than DLO did in his All-Star year. Look, I'm not saying PPG is not an important stat. I'm merely saying you need to look at as many statistical measures as you can in evaluating a player's value, not just the headlines.

Yes, DLO was a replacement All-Star reserve in 2018-9...you can't take that away from him. Just like you can't take it away from Andrew Wiggins that he was once Rookie of the Year. But all All-Stars and ROYs are not created equal. Ask yourself this. Does a guy who ranked in the bottom half of the league in efficient shooting, was a negative player using Sports Reference's criteria, and finished in the bottom 2% of the league in defensive effectiveness, deserve a spot on the All-Star ledger? Don't blame some of the members here when they roll their eyes at every reference to All-Star DLO.

My stance on DLO remains unchanged. He's got legit skills and value, but his max contract and the way Rosas has positioned his acquisition artificially inflates his perceived importance to the team. Therefore, he requires a certain number of minutes, shots, and is one of the key faces of the franchise. This has a deleterious effect on team culture in my opinion, as he is simply not a guy people will follow to go take a hill.

If at some point he is able to humble himself and realize that his job is to take care of the ball, get KAT shots, space the floor for Edwards, and take defense seriously, he can be a real plus player for the Wolves.

51.2% as effective FG% is still better than career eFG averages of players like Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker and Jimmy Butler. Real problem for Russell's scoring efficiency is that he doesn't get much free throws.

I think that more important point than being an all star in Russell's Brooklyn year was that he was clearly the team's best player and was able to get his team to playoffs. That is quite an achievement if you look the rest of the Nets roster that year.