Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Wouldn't many POBO candidates take themselves out of the running considering they won't be allowed to hire the people they think are best to move the team forward?

Nothing against Saunders or Layden... but Glen Taylor has a horrible track record making basketball-related decisions. At least there's hope that the new POBO is better at it.



[Note: Yes. I get the irony of Taylor being the one who hired the POBO... it's a never-ending loop of abject futility, basically.]

I honestly think very view if any candidates would take themselves out of the running just because they have to go with Ryan Saunders as their head coach for a year. POBO positions in the NBA are highly coveted and rarely available. Nearly every GM and Assistant GM in the NBA, along with every former POBO (Griffin and Hinkie for example) probably wake up every morning drooling at the thought of getting another NBA POBO job. I'm not even sure candidates would take themselves out of the running if Thibodeau were the head coach even though Thibodeau is widely known as a jerk to worth with.

In any event, the Strib article today indicated that the new POBO would have a say in deciding the fate of Ryan and Layden. I think a new POBO would likely want to keep Ryan for a season to see how how does, knowing that the players, including the team's star want Ryan to stay. In contrast, I think a new POBO want to replace Layden with his own trusted lieutenant. But I'm not so sure about that because a new POBO might want someone with him in the front office who knows the Wolves personnel well and knows his way around the organization.

I think far too much is being made about whether the team retains Saunders and/or Layden. The key is hiring the right POBO. I'm far more worried about Taylor's poor judgment and track record filling that position than I am about retaining Saunders or Layden for another year.

That was sorta my point though... a coveted POBO is going to want to have that level of power... and not have to rely on a green 32-year old coach to partially dictate his legacy for him. And I don't think hiring the first desperate POBO who'll kowtow instantly to Taylor's misguided wishes is the way to go.

But in any event, it's good to see that the new POBO will have a say in Saunders' and Layden's future. And he might opt for Saunders for the reasons you cited. It doesn't hurt that Saunders is pretty popular and fans aren't calling for his head or anything. I think most people would take a wait and see approach with the kid.



[Note: Slightly off-topic... Saunders has to up his "anger at officials" game. I watched only the final Denver run last night (JINX!)... but his actions after the non-foul on Wiggins seemed more like he was upset with his folks after not being given the keys to the car on a Saturday night.]

Camden, where were your complaints when Thibs was given full reigns despite having zero experience as a GM and having been fired in his only NBA head coaching stint? Thibs and Kahn were the worst hires Glen has ever made and whatever process ended up with those two didn't work.

Ryan has the respect of the team and most importantly KAT. I didn't have any expectations of Ryan, but he has impressed me so far. He is the anti-Thibs in so many ways and a breath of fresh air. Given the likelihood of Glen finding a more suitable coach to coach this team (low), I hope we give Ryan a chance to run with the job.

Camden0916 wrote:I'm not sure why there isn't a "back" button being utilized by the Wolves' decision-makers here. Saunders doesn't have to be the head coach. He has not earned the job as the interim coach nor did he deserve it in the first place. But he also doesn't have to be kicked out the door. Why is it not an option for him to be retained similarly to how he was when Thibodeau was brought on? From what I have read, he is a decent/good assistant coach that interacts with the players well and is very well-liked. He also seems to be more focused/keyed in on the analytical aspect of the game. Again, very worthwhile assistant coach qualities and none of this is a jab at Saunders. He's still a project as far as being a head coach goes. There is nothing wrong with that, but I think it's definitely fair to say that he could use more seasoning and incremental responsibilities -- rather than going from third or fourth on the pecking order to top dog because of his last name and ties to the organization.

He's just not ready or deserving, nor did he grab the job and run away with it. Why should he be penciled in as the guy without a proper search for the best candidate? Arguing against that logic is pure tomfoolery in my book.

I agree 100%. But Sid had his mind made up after a week Ryan and he seems to be the only one that can speak senile old man to Taylor.

KG4Ever wrote:Camden, where were your complaints when Thibs was given full reigns despite having zero experience as a GM and having been fired in his only NBA head coaching stint? Thibs and Kahn were the worst hires Glen has ever made and whatever process ended up with those two didn't work.

Ryan has the respect of the team and most importantly KAT. I didn't have any expectations of Ryan, but he has impressed me so far. He is the anti-Thibs in so many ways and a breath of fresh air. Given the likelihood of Glen finding a more suitable coach to coach this team (low), I hope we give Ryan a chance to run with the job.

Once again, Thibs was super successful as an NBA coach with the Bulls and the duel role was the new hot thing in the NBA so it made sense at the time to give him duel control. The situation is not even comparable. We gave a super successful coach a job. While now we would be giving a total unproven coach in Ryan the job and Layden was a complete bust in his one stop with the Knicks.

Thibs might not of worked out but he is not even close on the same level as Kahn. Thibs ended up being the second best coach in Wolves history in terms of record. He also signed 2 of the best free agent signings in wolves history in Teague and Gibson, also acquired arguably the 2nd best player in wolves history in Butler.

Thibs might of not strived with the wolves but the signing at the time made perfect sense and he is not even close to the garbage Kahn did constantly

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Camden, where were your complaints when Thibs was given full reigns despite having zero experience as a GM and having been fired in his only NBA head coaching stint? Thibs and Kahn were the worst hires Glen has ever made and whatever process ended up with those two didn't work.

Ryan has the respect of the team and most importantly KAT. I didn't have any expectations of Ryan, but he has impressed me so far. He is the anti-Thibs in so many ways and a breath of fresh air. Given the likelihood of Glen finding a more suitable coach to coach this team (low), I hope we give Ryan a chance to run with the job.

Once again, Thibs was super successful as an NBA coach with the Bulls and the duel role was the new hot thing in the NBA so it made sense at the time to give him duel control. The situation is not even comparable. We gave a super successful coach a job. While now we would be giving a total unproven coach in Ryan the job and Layden was a complete bust in his one stop with the Knicks.

Thibs might not of worked out but he is not even close on the same level as Kahn. Thibs ended up being the second best coach in Wolves history in terms of record. He also signed 2 of the best free agent signings in wolves history in Teague and Gibson, also acquired arguably the 2nd best player in wolves history in Butler.

Thibs might of not strived with the wolves but the signing at the time made perfect sense and he is not even close to the garbage Kahn did constantly

Thibs took a team with a plethora of assets and young talent and managed to parlay it into one embarrassing playoff loss before alienating the entire organization and getting himself shit canned. His whole tenure here turned out to be a shit show. Why do you constantly feel the need to prop him up? Kek, he's gone. Move on.

There's a massive difference between being objective and "propping someone up."

Being objective is noting that Thibodeau was considered by the majority of basketball fans and followers to be one of the best head coaches on the market. The reason for that is how successful (wins) he was in Chicago. His regular season record, his playoff success despite being short-handed, the growth of several young players under his tutelage -- all fact. There were risks, but the perceived reward was worth it at the time.

Propping someone up would be to argue timelessly that Andrew Wiggins was/is a good NBA basketball player, that his post game as a rookie was better than Carmelo Anthony's, and that he's a premier scorer in the league. That's propping someone up. I use those examples, Cool, because at one point or another, they all came from your keyboard.

Kek isn't a Thibs fan or supporter, but he has seemed to keep it straight up when it comes to that whole situation.

Thibs = David Kahn.

The Thibs hate has reached its zenith...

Why not go all in... Thibs <<< Kahn + Rambis.



[Note: I apologize for this "Please bring back Thibs, he's my hero" post. I can't contain my enthusiasm and love for the man.]

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Camden, where were your complaints when Thibs was given full reigns despite having zero experience as a GM and having been fired in his only NBA head coaching stint? Thibs and Kahn were the worst hires Glen has ever made and whatever process ended up with those two didn't work.

Ryan has the respect of the team and most importantly KAT. I didn't have any expectations of Ryan, but he has impressed me so far. He is the anti-Thibs in so many ways and a breath of fresh air. Given the likelihood of Glen finding a more suitable coach to coach this team (low), I hope we give Ryan a chance to run with the job.

Once again, Thibs was super successful as an NBA coach with the Bulls and the duel role was the new hot thing in the NBA so it made sense at the time to give him duel control. The situation is not even comparable. We gave a super successful coach a job. While now we would be giving a total unproven coach in Ryan the job and Layden was a complete bust in his one stop with the Knicks.

Thibs might not of worked out but he is not even close on the same level as Kahn. Thibs ended up being the second best coach in Wolves history in terms of record. He also signed 2 of the best free agent signings in wolves history in Teague and Gibson, also acquired arguably the 2nd best player in wolves history in Butler.

Thibs might of not strived with the wolves but the signing at the time made perfect sense and he is not even close to the garbage Kahn did constantly

Thibs took a team with a plethora of assets and young talent and managed to parlay it into one embarrassing playoff loss before alienating the entire organization and getting himself shit canned. His whole tenure here turned out to be a shit show. Why do you constantly feel the need to prop him up? Kek, he's gone. Move on.

KG asked the question so I responded for Cam because I know Cam wasn't going to respond. Once again I completely understand why Thibs was fired, he is an Asshole and made mistakes as the PBO, including Gorgui contract, Wiggins contract (what I still understand why he did it, I mean a smart basketball mind Lip said at the time he would take Wiggins over Embiid) picking Dunn and picking Patton (Little unlucky with injuries not saying he would of been a stud or anything).

I just don't think Thibs was as bad as people think as both but the narrative is negative because Thibs is an asshole. While people have enjoyed Ryan style of play but its the exact same as Thibs and the things that people complained about Thibs on how he ran his offesnse (Pace, 3pt attempts) and how he played defense (Defense the 3 worse than any other team in the NBA), Ryans team did it worse but it is ok and more enjoyable because he is a nice guy. (I completely understand your point on how it takes time to change the culture and I completely understand why he would be given a full offseason to prove he can change the style and culture of play).

You talk about all the assets he acquired, well every thing Thibs traded those players value have went down from when they are traded. Lavine value is down, Dunn value is down, Rubio value is down, Markannann is the only one who probably has higher value but we don't know how much value he actually has. The same people that are mad that we gave up these assets are the same people who are mad we didn't trade wiggins earlier, hindsight is great when things don't work out but Thibs got out of a 20 mil dollar contract for a below average player in Lavine. In every trade he made he acquired a future asset.

Thibs got fired because of the 4 picks he had he had 2 bad ones (Dunn, Patton), one good one (Okogie looks like the best or 2nd best player drafted around that area) and one ok value one (KBD was the best player selected in that area so far), he acquired an all nba player and it didn't work and Thibs is an asshole. But I will strongly disagree with anyone that says he is in the Kahn level. In the end he is the 2nd best coach the Wolves have ever had, low bar I know but you are judged by wins and losses and he was the 2nd best in terms of record.

Once again I want Ryan to succeed, 1st because I want to watch a winner, and he seems like a nice dude. I have liked how he interacts with his players and how he is flexible in rotations in games (Can be a negative though if players don't know their role). What I have seen on the court is ok at best. I am scepticle because of what I saw on the court and because he wouldn't be hired anywhere else in the NBA to be a head coach besides the Wolves because of his last name. (That doesn't mean he is not well respected around the NBA he just doesn't have head coaching respect in other places outside of the Wolves)

Let's just move on. Thibs is gone. Ryan is going to get his chance to put his own stamp on the team. Some may not like it, I don't even know how I feel about it. But it is kind of exciting to know a new POBO is coming in. Hopefully we finally find the right guy to start changing the culture here. If Ryan flourishes under the new President, we will all be very happy.