Minnesota Sports Forum

What is wrong with JMac as a back up at a mil or 2? I dont see that much of a drop off between him and Rubio for the 2nd unit.

My biggest issue with this team for the last 10+ years has not changed. They have consistent turnover all over the FO and thus have pushed chips in years too early. We are now stuck in the same spot. No place to move, no actual contention promise, same old.

thedoper wrote:What is wrong with JMac as a back up at a mil or 2? I dont see that much of a drop off between him and Rubio for the 2nd unit.

I'm totally with you on this, Doper.

I don't disagree with the comment here that $17 million is too much to pay a backup PG. The disconnect between the prevailing opinion on this board about Ricky and the opinion of Finch and Rosas is that they clearly don't see him as a backup PG...that is quite evident by how much his name has been mentioned by both of them both during the season and recently. And with all due respect, Lip and Doper, saying that there isn't much of a drop off at PG going from Rubio to McLaughlin is a take I don't think any NBA GM would agree with. While I would agree that neither of them is a very efficient scorer (both were far below average for NBA PG's last season, although Ricky had a better TS% than JMac), there is a huge difference between the two on the defensive side of the ball. I would give my grandmother a fighting chance of putting up 20 points on JMac, and she has definitely lost a step since her glory years ;-) . Some here say Ricky showed signs of slowing down last year, and I also noticed that early in the season when some pundits said he was still in a Covid hangover...he certainly didn't look like himself. But his defense was as good as ever at the end of the season, and he clearly looked different defensively when he was on the court compared to DLO or JMac. And the difference couldn't be any more evident in the stats. Ricky ranked 15th among PGs last season in DRPM...behind guys like Paul, Simmons and Beverley, but ahead of guys known for their defense like Holiday and Smart. JMac on the other hand puts a lot of effort into defense...I'll give him that...but he just isn't effective. He ranked 79th out of 91 PGs last season in DRPM, even behind the much-maligned DLO... and let's just say the names of the guys in his strata are a far cry defensively from the guys in Ricky's strata.

Don't get me wrong...I like JMac. He seems like a good guy, and he constantly gives you 100% effort. But it's difficult for him to compensate for his 6-0 height and a wingspan that is 5 inches shorter than Rubio, and the defensive knowledge gap between the two is immense. We should criticize Ricky's shooting all we want...it's warranted...but it's absurd to say a fringe player just trying to hang on in the NBA is at the same level as Ricky Rubio.

FNG wrote:I don't disagree with the comment here that $17 million is too much to pay a backup PG. The disconnect between the prevailing opinion on this board about Ricky and the opinion of Finch and Rosas is that they clearly don't see him as a backup PG...that is quite evident by how much his name has been mentioned by both of them both during the season and recently. And with all due respect, Lip and Doper, saying that there isn't much of a drop off at PG going from Rubio to McLaughlin is a take I don't think any NBA GM would agree with. While I would agree that neither of them is a very efficient scorer (both were far below average for NBA PG's last season, although Ricky had a better TS% than JMac), there is a huge difference between the two on the defensive side of the ball. I would give my grandmother a fighting chance of putting up 20 points on JMac, and she has definitely lost a step since her glory years ;-) . Some here say Ricky showed signs of slowing down last year, and I also noticed that early in the season when some pundits said he was still in a Covid hangover...he certainly didn't look like himself. But his defense was as good as ever at the end of the season, and he clearly looked different defensively when he was on the court compared to DLO or JMac. And the difference couldn't be any more evident in the stats. Ricky ranked 15th among PGs last season in DRPM...behind guys like Paul, Simmons and Beverley, but ahead of guys known for their defense like Holiday and Smart. JMac on the other hand puts a lot of effort into defense...I'll give him that...but he just isn't effective. He ranked 79th out of 91 PGs last season in DRPM, even behind the much-maligned DLO... and let's just say the names of the guys in his strata are a far cry defensively from the guys in Ricky's strata.

Don't get me wrong...I like JMac. He seems like a good guy, and he constantly gives you 100% effort. But it's difficult for him to compensate for his 6-0 height and a wingspan that is 5 inches shorter than Rubio, and the defensive knowledge gap between the two is immense. We should criticize Ricky's shooting all we want...it's warranted...but it's absurd to say a fringe player just trying to hang on in the NBA is at the same level as Ricky Rubio.

I'm not entirely sure what the adoration is with McLaughlin. He's "fine" ... sorta like the 3rd string backup QB is "fine."

He's not marginally better than most of the 3rd string PGs around the league. He's entirely replaceable.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I don't disagree with the comment here that $17 million is too much to pay a backup PG. The disconnect between the prevailing opinion on this board about Ricky and the opinion of Finch and Rosas is that they clearly don't see him as a backup PG...that is quite evident by how much his name has been mentioned by both of them both during the season and recently. And with all due respect, Lip and Doper, saying that there isn't much of a drop off at PG going from Rubio to McLaughlin is a take I don't think any NBA GM would agree with. While I would agree that neither of them is a very efficient scorer (both were far below average for NBA PG's last season, although Ricky had a better TS% than JMac), there is a huge difference between the two on the defensive side of the ball. I would give my grandmother a fighting chance of putting up 20 points on JMac, and she has definitely lost a step since her glory years ;-) . Some here say Ricky showed signs of slowing down last year, and I also noticed that early in the season when some pundits said he was still in a Covid hangover...he certainly didn't look like himself. But his defense was as good as ever at the end of the season, and he clearly looked different defensively when he was on the court compared to DLO or JMac. And the difference couldn't be any more evident in the stats. Ricky ranked 15th among PGs last season in DRPM...behind guys like Paul, Simmons and Beverley, but ahead of guys known for their defense like Holiday and Smart. JMac on the other hand puts a lot of effort into defense...I'll give him that...but he just isn't effective. He ranked 79th out of 91 PGs last season in DRPM, even behind the much-maligned DLO... and let's just say the names of the guys in his strata are a far cry defensively from the guys in Ricky's strata.

Don't get me wrong...I like JMac. He seems like a good guy, and he constantly gives you 100% effort. But it's difficult for him to compensate for his 6-0 height and a wingspan that is 5 inches shorter than Rubio, and the defensive knowledge gap between the two is immense. We should criticize Ricky's shooting all we want...it's warranted...but it's absurd to say a fringe player just trying to hang on in the NBA is at the same level as Ricky Rubio.

I'm not entirely sure what the adoration is with McLaughlin. He's "fine" ... sorta like the 3rd string backup QB is "fine."

He's not marginally better than most of the 3rd string PGs around the league. He's entirely replaceable.

In general if I was going to pick between McLaughlin and Rubio at their expected salary for next season...I would pick McLaughlin. Rubio is likely to be the better player but he isn't worth 10x the salary. Is McLaughlin like Abe said a replaceable 3rd PG or is he more of a backup level PG? Honestly I don't know.

I have wondered if the Wolves will look elsewhere to make some sort of move other than Rubio. Edwards talks glowingly of Rubio too. I also think Rubio might have a bounce back year and be more valuable this coming season than he was this year. He is a bigger PG so I don't think he is going to have that physical drop off. The Wolves have over 17 in expiring salaries they can move between Culver Juancho and Layman to facilitate a trade. I don't think they want to move Beasley but it may make sense to do so if they get the right value back. They have so many perimeter players on the roster right now and even next year if Rubio Culver and Okogie all left as a FA and everyone else stayed there would still be quite a few guys...although there would not be a defensive guard.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:I don't disagree with the comment here that $17 million is too much to pay a backup PG. The disconnect between the prevailing opinion on this board about Ricky and the opinion of Finch and Rosas is that they clearly don't see him as a backup PG...that is quite evident by how much his name has been mentioned by both of them both during the season and recently. And with all due respect, Lip and Doper, saying that there isn't much of a drop off at PG going from Rubio to McLaughlin is a take I don't think any NBA GM would agree with. While I would agree that neither of them is a very efficient scorer (both were far below average for NBA PG's last season, although Ricky had a better TS% than JMac), there is a huge difference between the two on the defensive side of the ball. I would give my grandmother a fighting chance of putting up 20 points on JMac, and she has definitely lost a step since her glory years ;-) . Some here say Ricky showed signs of slowing down last year, and I also noticed that early in the season when some pundits said he was still in a Covid hangover...he certainly didn't look like himself. But his defense was as good as ever at the end of the season, and he clearly looked different defensively when he was on the court compared to DLO or JMac. And the difference couldn't be any more evident in the stats. Ricky ranked 15th among PGs last season in DRPM...behind guys like Paul, Simmons and Beverley, but ahead of guys known for their defense like Holiday and Smart. JMac on the other hand puts a lot of effort into defense...I'll give him that...but he just isn't effective. He ranked 79th out of 91 PGs last season in DRPM, even behind the much-maligned DLO... and let's just say the names of the guys in his strata are a far cry defensively from the guys in Ricky's strata.

Don't get me wrong...I like JMac. He seems like a good guy, and he constantly gives you 100% effort. But it's difficult for him to compensate for his 6-0 height and a wingspan that is 5 inches shorter than Rubio, and the defensive knowledge gap between the two is immense. We should criticize Ricky's shooting all we want...it's warranted...but it's absurd to say a fringe player just trying to hang on in the NBA is at the same level as Ricky Rubio.

I'm not entirely sure what the adoration is with McLaughlin. He's "fine" ... sorta like the 3rd string backup QB is "fine."

He's not marginally better than most of the 3rd string PGs around the league. He's entirely replaceable.

X1000.

Debating about how important Mclaughlin is to our franchise is laughable. In more than one way.

TheFuture wrote:My biggest issue with this team for the last 10+ years has not changed. They have consistent turnover all over the FO and thus have pushed chips in years too early. We are now stuck in the same spot. No place to move, no actual contention promise, same old.

Yeah, Thibs was the wrong guy to take over a young team and he traded away Zach Lavine and the pick that would have landed Buddy Hield or Jamaal Murray. KAT, Lavine and Hield/Miurray wouldn't have been a bad foundation to build off of several years ago and we have pretty much nothing to show for Butler, except for maybe the one dimensional Beasley who would have otherwise been a free agent.

DLO is another bad move and if the Wolves had kept the pick they likely would have let up on the gas a bit and had a good chance at a top 4 pick.

KG4Ever wrote:

TheFuture wrote:My biggest issue with this team for the last 10+ years has not changed. They have consistent turnover all over the FO and thus have pushed chips in years too early. We are now stuck in the same spot. No place to move, no actual contention promise, same old.

Yeah, Thibs was the wrong guy to take over a young team and he traded away Zach Lavine and the pick that would have landed Buddy Hield or Jamaal Murray. KAT, Lavine and Hield/Miurray wouldn't have been a bad foundation to build off of several years ago and we have pretty much nothing to show for Butler, except for maybe the one dimensional Beasley who would have otherwise been a free agent.

DLO is another bad move and if the Wolves had kept the pick they likely would have let up on the gas a bit and had a good chance at a top 4 pick.

Thibs didn't give the pick that became Hield or Murray. Thibs never traded a 1st round pick without getting one back and acquired more 1sts then he traded away.

You are welcome to your belief that they shouldn't of traded for Jimmy but it's not like lavine has succeeded in the NBA (0 32 win seasons) and it doesn't sound like bulls want to extend Lauri.

Biggest issue with the wolves is the Wolves had 3 straight #1 overall picks in Bennett, Wiggins and Towns and Towns is the only legit good one and the Wolves no matter who was drafting consistently drafted bad. (Rosas might actually be good, hopefully)

kekgeek1 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

TheFuture wrote:My biggest issue with this team for the last 10+ years has not changed. They have consistent turnover all over the FO and thus have pushed chips in years too early. We are now stuck in the same spot. No place to move, no actual contention promise, same old.

Yeah, Thibs was the wrong guy to take over a young team and he traded away Zach Lavine and the pick that would have landed Buddy Hield or Jamaal Murray. KAT, Lavine and Hield/Miurray wouldn't have been a bad foundation to build off of several years ago and we have pretty much nothing to show for Butler, except for maybe the one dimensional Beasley who would have otherwise been a free agent.

DLO is another bad move and if the Wolves had kept the pick they likely would have let up on the gas a bit and had a good chance at a top 4 pick.

Thibs didn't give the pick that became Hield or Murray. Thibs never traded a 1st round pick without getting one back and acquired more 1sts then he traded away.

You are welcome to your belief that they shouldn't of traded for Jimmy but it's not like lavine has succeeded in the NBA (0 32 win seasons) and it doesn't sound like bulls want to extend Lauri.

Biggest issue with the wolves is the Wolves had 3 straight #1 overall picks in Bennett, Wiggins and Towns and Towns is the only legit good one and the Wolves no matter who was drafting consistently drafted bad. (Rosas might actually be good, hopefully)

Thibs drafted Dunn instead of a guy that would be at worst a high level 6th man in Buddy. That's rough. I tend to give him and Layden a bit of a pass on Patton because of unforeseen injury but still there were other guys that they could have taken that would be at least slid starters...or they could have taken Collins. What's a bit amusing is that Thibs actually wanted to play somewhat big with that Patton pick and I think a lot of us would like to see a guy with Patton's theoretical skills (either as a rim runner or more diverse skills if he really hit) next to Towns.