Minnesota Sports Forum

Frustrating watching the game in NZ with league pass due to technical issues, but enjoyed it none the less.

The biggest issue with this team so far is a lack of flow and chemistry especially offensively. Very little ball movement and relying on ISO plays without spacing the floor. It was like everyone was rolling to the hoop and crashing the boards after the ISO player jacked up a heavily contested shot in the lane. The only thing I can think of was they were trying to get Gobert in foul trouble to change the dynamics of the game. The positives though is that if we can drive and kick out to the open man for the three point shot it might work. But we need better ball movement, cuts and movement off the ball and smarter decisions in general.

Another observation was the terrible 3 point shooting especially in the first three quarters. It wasn't a personal issue it was the fact there was no flow in the offense and guys were second guessing whether to take the shot. Once again the result of a lack of ball movement.

You guys know we won the game against a playoff contentender in the Jazz. They took care of What they needed to do.

Year past we lose those games. Ricky on the side what matters the most the losing side.

We are 1-1 on to the next one

bleedspeed177 wrote:I just go to the moment Bulter and Rubio were going at each other and thought. Man it would have been great to see those two guys playing together. If you have both of them as leaders on a team it would have been something. Teague will never be a leader. He has not been in the past and won't be in the future. Everyone says give Teague time to figure it out. That makes me wonder why it Rubio seems to be clicking from the start with the Jazz. That team just lost its best player on a borderline playoff team and we gained a 3rd team all-NBA player and barely beat them after they lost Hood. I slowly have been stepping off the Thibs bandwagon after the drafting of Dunn. Now I am fully off after the trade of Rubio.

We have to be honest about honest here. Teague was traded from the Hawks for a reason and there is a reason the Pacers didn't want him back. Maybe I will be proven wrong in the long haul, but the early going it doesn't look good and in the NBA most teams know by December if they are going to the playoffs or not. Slow starts are very telling.

Atlanta also traded Hortford, and let Milsap walk not long after winning 60 games together. Pacers also got rid of Paul George so there's that.

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Lip, I get that there is a lot of emotion involved with losing a player like Rubio. But man it's been two games. And to try and hammer that point after two games is a bit irrational. And we don't need to declare Wiggins a great player or not a great player after every game. Khans you continue to be the most rational and on point poster on the board.

It's not irrational or emotion-driven to say we would have been better off the past two games with Ricky based on what we've seen the past two games and what we know about both players. That's a very fair fact-based observation. I believe that's all Q and Bleed said and i know that's all i said. As i said, Teague played well defensively late in the 4th. I also noted that we'll have to see how this plays out over the season. By the end of the season, we may all look back and conclude that the swap was a net plus for us, especially when you factor in the 2018 1st round pick we received. But so far, some of us continue to believe we'd be better off with Ricky. That's not emotional or irrational. That's just a fact-based conclusion based on what we've seen so far. Others can reach a different conclusion and explain it. But that doesn't make the the contrary conclusion irrational or overly emotional.

As for Wiggins, who declared he's a great or not great player?? I simply said I liked the way he played last night and in the 1st game. I believe I said his play this two games is a reminder of how great he can be. Is that a declaration he's great? Or not great?

The irrational emotion I see is in those who seem offended by any assessment of a player's performance in particular games -- somehow seeing things in what others write that isn't there.

It's not a fact. It's a guess. You cannot factually know we would be better with Ricky because we don't have Ricky anymore to play with this team. You can guess we'd be better offensively just as I'd guess that we'd actually be worse with a starting 5 of Ricky, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson and Towns because of the shooting deficiencies and the clogged up lanes not only closing passing lanes for Ricky, but would also give us no room to score around the bucket for Towns, Butler or Wiggins. Oh and now you've taken the ball out of Butler and Wiggins hands to make Ricky valuable at all thus lowering their value on the court. As mediocre as Teague has been, he hasn't dominated the ball either. Ricky has a 25.8 usage rate with Utah. Given the talent on our roster, having a player of Ricky's caliber ending 26% of positions either positively or negatively is a downgrade in quality we could get from our big 3 getting those possessions. The irrational emotion here is we have this new team with several good players that will take time to gel and all people can do here is bitch that we don't have Ricky anymore after we just beat him. Ricky getting praised in a game he lost. It's a familiar feeling on here. Hopefully the winning will finally drown out the praise for the losers.

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Lip, I get that there is a lot of emotion involved with losing a player like Rubio. But man it's been two games. And to try and hammer that point after two games is a bit irrational. And we don't need to declare Wiggins a great player or not a great player after every game. Khans you continue to be the most rational and on point poster on the board.

It's not irrational or emotion-driven to say we would have been better off the past two games with Ricky based on what we've seen the past two games and what we know about both players. That's a very fair fact-based observation. I believe that's all Q and Bleed said and i know that's all i said. As i said, Teague played well defensively late in the 4th. I also noted that we'll have to see how this plays out over the season. By the end of the season, we may all look back and conclude that the swap was a net plus for us, especially when you factor in the 2018 1st round pick we received. But so far, some of us continue to believe we'd be better off with Ricky. That's not emotional or irrational. That's just a fact-based conclusion based on what we've seen so far. Others can reach a different conclusion and explain it. But that doesn't make the the contrary conclusion irrational or overly emotional.

As for Wiggins, who declared he's a great or not great player?? I simply said I liked the way he played last night and in the 1st game. I believe I said his play this two games is a reminder of how great he can be. Is that a declaration he's great? Or not great?

The irrational emotion I see is in those who seem offended by any assessment of a player's performance in particular games -- somehow seeing things in what others write that isn't there.

It's not a fact. It's a guess. You cannot factually know we would be better with Ricky because we don't have Ricky anymore to play with this team. You can guess we'd be better offensively just as I'd guess that we'd actually be worse with a starting 5 of Ricky, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson and Towns because of the shooting deficiencies and the clogged up lanes not only closing passing lanes for Ricky, but would also give us no room to score around the bucket for Towns, Butler or Wiggins. Oh and now you've taken the ball out of Butler and Wiggins hands to make Ricky valuable at all thus lowering their value on the court. As mediocre as Teague has been, he hasn't dominated the ball either. Ricky has a 25.8 usage rate with Utah. Given the talent on our roster, having a player of Ricky's caliber ending 26% of positions either positively or negatively is a downgrade in quality we could get from our big 3 getting those possessions. The irrational emotion here is we have this new team with several good players that will take time to gel and all people can do here is bitch that we don't have Ricky anymore after we just beat him. Ricky getting praised in a game he lost. It's a familiar feeling on here. Hopefully the winning will finally drown out the praise for the losers.

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Lip, I get that there is a lot of emotion involved with losing a player like Rubio. But man it's been two games. And to try and hammer that point after two games is a bit irrational. And we don't need to declare Wiggins a great player or not a great player after every game. Khans you continue to be the most rational and on point poster on the board.

It's not irrational or emotion-driven to say we would have been better off the past two games with Ricky based on what we've seen the past two games and what we know about both players. That's a very fair fact-based observation. I believe that's all Q and Bleed said and i know that's all i said. As i said, Teague played well defensively late in the 4th. I also noted that we'll have to see how this plays out over the season. By the end of the season, we may all look back and conclude that the swap was a net plus for us, especially when you factor in the 2018 1st round pick we received. But so far, some of us continue to believe we'd be better off with Ricky. That's not emotional or irrational. That's just a fact-based conclusion based on what we've seen so far. Others can reach a different conclusion and explain it. But that doesn't make the the contrary conclusion irrational or overly emotional.

As for Wiggins, who declared he's a great or not great player?? I simply said I liked the way he played last night and in the 1st game. I believe I said his play this two games is a reminder of how great he can be. Is that a declaration he's great? Or not great?

The irrational emotion I see is in those who seem offended by any assessment of a player's performance in particular games -- somehow seeing things in what others write that isn't there.

It's not a fact. It's a guess. You cannot factually know we would be better with Ricky because we don't have Ricky anymore to play with this team. You can guess we'd be better offensively just as I'd guess that we'd actually be worse with a starting 5 of Ricky, Butler, Wiggins, Gibson and Towns because of the shooting deficiencies and the clogged up lanes not only closing passing lanes for Ricky, but would also give us no room to score around the bucket for Towns, Butler or Wiggins. Oh and now you've taken the ball out of Butler and Wiggins hands to make Ricky valuable at all thus lowering their value on the court. As mediocre as Teague has been, he hasn't dominated the ball either. Ricky has a 25.8 usage rate with Utah. Given the talent on our roster, having a player of Ricky's caliber ending 26% of positions either positively or negatively is a downgrade in quality we could get from our big 3 getting those possessions. The irrational emotion here is we have this new team with several good players that will take time to gel and all people can do here is bitch that we don't have Ricky anymore after we just beat him. Ricky getting praised in a game he lost. It's a familiar feeling on here. Hopefully the winning will finally drown out the praise for the losers.

Kahns, you're way too wound up over this. You'd think that Teague is your close cousin and Rubio robbed you at gun point. :). I didn't say it's a fact we would have performed better with Ricky rather than Teague as our PG. It's obviously my opinion, which I characterized as a "fact-based" observation. Just look at the box score for some of those facts. And of course, there are facts that you can point to for a different conclusion. That's fine. But I think the emotion is emanating more from you than anyone else in this thread. I should add that there's nothing wrong with emotion or emotion-driven opinions on an NBA message board - unless you're on the planet Vulcan.

The Wolves haven't played well these first two games. That's certainly the way I and a number of people on this Board see it. If this team is going to be a top 4 or 5 team in the West, they have to play a lot better than they have these past two games. We shouldn't need a last second shot to squeeze out a win at home with a packed house over a Jazz team without Hayward and Hill and without Hood in the 4th quarter. I'm hoping it's primarily a matter of blending a new group of players and the fact we had only 3 preseason games. Time will tell.

I finished watching the game tonight. I read the game thread and Lip's report. I'll add some thoughts here before reading the rest of the thread.

Crawford won us a game tonight. He has won over Lip.

Bazz has a couple nice passes including a pretty good looking drive into the middle of the floor and kick to a 3 point line. The Jazz are a bad matchup for him to have a big game because of their very good tim protection. That's why Carford having a good game helped a lot.

Towns is one of the most talented offensive bigs I have ever seen but he is awful as a roll guy. Maybe Justin Patton can get healthy and teach him and Dieng what to do. WTF it drive me insane and I think Jim Pete has to hold himself back breaking down those 2 on those plays. Because both of those guys struggle in that area it really doesn't help Teague it Butler out. Towns has to figure out out eventually but that play late when Crawford made the right play and Towns wasn't ready was very frustrating.

The Wolves D came to play for the most part. The created turnovers and that was key.

You could say we were lucky to win that game but that was also a bunch of crazy things to even get to the point it was. When the NBA created the clear path foil I was excited about it but now I think they should get rid of it. I can't figure out how they call it 25% of the time and they have to stop a game for a lot of the calls and that slows the game down.

Wiggins had a nice pass early in the game but whoever got it missed the shot.

I agree the offense looks bad. That's not surprising. I'm not worried this team is gonna score

Belly looks amazing. I wonder if they want to limit his minutes because I would have played him down the stretch maybe gave him a breather and put him back in.

I'm hard on Towns but ultimately he had a pretty good game.

Taj got the Wolves a bunch of possessions by his activity.

I'll take the win I hope Hood's injury isn't serious.

bleedspeed177 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote: Let's stop acting like everything would be rosy with Ricky. It wasn't and that's why he's gone.

Never said it was, but the guy is an easy player to be a fan of. It might take time, but no current Wolve has that. I would have said LaVine was the other guy that was easy to pull for and I think a lot of us will be hoping he does good things for the Bulls.

Tyus is that guy for me.

Also Butler seemed to in one night moved Rubio from the fun friendly fan favorite to a guy to tustle with and call him out etc. interesting move I can't help but wonder if it was somewhat calculated. I'm not sure if Ibreally like it or wonder if the guy is nuts. Lol

monsterpile wrote:Also Butler seemed to in one night moved Rubio from the fun friendly fan favorite to a guy to tustle with and call him out etc. interesting move I can't help but wonder if it was somewhat calculated. I'm not sure if Ibreally like it or wonder if the guy is nuts. Lol

I loved it and it was during a big momentum swing in the game. Butler is the Alpha now and that really solidified it for me.

thedoper wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Also Butler seemed to in one night moved Rubio from the fun friendly fan favorite to a guy to tustle with and call him out etc. interesting move I can't help but wonder if it was somewhat calculated. I'm not sure if Ibreally like it or wonder if the guy is nuts. Lol

I loved it and it was during a big momentum swing in the game. Butler is the Alpha now and that really solidified it for me.

I also loved it. I'm a big Rubio fan, but Butler did the right thing to ingnite his team. In other words, I think it was deliberate on Butler's part. Before the game, Wolves players were all hugging Ricky. That was fine and it wasn't surprising because Wolves players, like fans, really like Ricky. But the Wolves looked soft as an inferior Jazz team looked like they were ready to steal our home opener. Butler's message message to his new teammates and fans was clear -- Ricky's gone, f-Ricky, we're here to kick the other team's ass and win. Butler brings to this team two of the three things it needed most - defense and toughness. Not sure where we're going to get the third thing - 3 point shooting - but I loved what I saw from Butler Friday night.

I think the reason people get so upset about rubio is that he is a gamer. He has a passion that you just love to watch. Butler has it. Tyus has it. Crawford has it. Honestly that may be it on our team. I think that may be a huge reason for the concern about wiggins and towns. I want to see guys hit the deck. I want to see them get after it. I think the next time i see wiggins dive at a ball would be the first. This was a good thread to read. I see both sides. Just need to see a few more games. Anyone think thibs may have shaken teagues confidence benching him in 4th against spurs? Maybe hes thinkimg too much rather than just going out and playing. Oh my was crawford fun to watch though. Love watching his handles. Maybe they can rub off a bit on wiggins.