Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:Our path to improvement is through Wiggins and Towns. They just need to get better. Role players are not the difference people here are looking for. Bringing in all these supplemental pieces is not the real answer. Those are patch jobs. The real path to improvement is our two still young #1 picks need to start playing night in and night out like they are the best players on the court. That is our path to both being a top team in the West and eventually becoming a contender. That was always the path and they just aren't good enough yet which is why we were an 8 seed this year and not a 4-5 seed. The Pelicans got better after Demarcus went down because AD carried that team night in and night out. Lillard and CJ carried that team all year long. Mitchell and Gobert carried that Utah squad. It's time for Towns and Wiggins to actually carry this team to wins and stop blaming the pieces around them. Other guys are working with arguable less around them, yet they are impacting the game a lot more and their teams are winning because of it. You're looking in the wrong place if you were expecting the full MLE to push us to the next level. The core pieces need to do that work.

Yes. This is always it. I'm not ready to move away from Towns and Wiggins yet and think it's premature to not try and see where their peaks might be. It took us so long to even get to this level of talent through the draft. The real point of these supplemental moves are to give the stars the breathing room to succeed. I do think that goes a long way in bringing teams to the next level, just look what Hustons moves have done for their team. 2-3 more quality bench players could have gotten us 8+ more wins this year, giving us a higher seed, more rest for our starters. Definitely a factor.

khans2k5 wrote:Our path to improvement is through Wiggins and Towns. They just need to get better. Role players are not the difference people here are looking for. Bringing in all these supplemental pieces is not the real answer. Those are patch jobs. The real path to improvement is our two still young #1 picks need to start playing night in and night out like they are the best players on the court. That is our path to both being a top team in the West and eventually becoming a contender. That was always the path and they just aren't good enough yet which is why we were an 8 seed this year and not a 4-5 seed. The Pelicans got better after Demarcus went down because AD carried that team night in and night out. Lillard and CJ carried that team all year long. Mitchell and Gobert carried that Utah squad. It's time for Towns and Wiggins to actually carry this team to wins and stop blaming the pieces around them. Other guys are working with arguable less around them, yet they are impacting the game a lot more and their teams are winning because of it. You're looking in the wrong place if you were expecting the full MLE to push us to the next level. The core pieces need to do that work.

Absolutely right, Kahns! Adding a good two-way wing and 3-point marksman to our bench can help win some more games. But you are absolutely right that the key to improving to the point where the Wolves can contend for a championship rests on the shoulders of KAT and Wiggins. That's why I don't want to see this organization give up on Wiggins, even though he has continued to frustrate me. Let's lock in KAT with a max extension this summer, spend the full $5.4 MLE we're allowed to spend, draft well, try hard to improve by trading Gorgui and/or Teague and explore sign-and-trades for Belly without giving away any of those guys. We can and should improve the team around KAT, Wiggins and Butler. But in the short run and especially the long run, this team will go as far as KAT and Wiggins carry them. So both those guys absolutely need to improve significantly over the summer. I believe they can.

Dieng and his contract is basically trashed every time there is an opportunity (and to some extent it's absolutely deserved) but it's possible he could still be a worthwhile player for us. He is a better player and has proven it at the highest levels but today Tristin Thompson was huge for the Cavs today when he has really struggled this year as a whole. Ultimately we need to get something out of him ourselves. Les also remember that even though the league has changed a lot and he will struggle in some matchups (Thibs should play matchups more and that would help) he used to play PFs better than he did this year even some of the mobile ones. The overall stats don't really look good in the playoffs but he just looked like he was making a positive impact and I was worried about him in that regard. Maybe he doesn't give us much or is passed up by another player. I would t he surprised to see that either. I also think he could be a guy that bounces back some and gives us a guy worth playing some legit minutes and maybe even keeping Towns minutes down. I'm not saying we should keep him. If someone has a deal that makes sense we should absolutely do it but while I think it's not impossible it's also unlikely.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Our path to improvement is through Wiggins and Towns. They just need to get better. Role players are not the difference people here are looking for. Bringing in all these supplemental pieces is not the real answer. Those are patch jobs. The real path to improvement is our two still young #1 picks need to start playing night in and night out like they are the best players on the court. That is our path to both being a top team in the West and eventually becoming a contender. That was always the path and they just aren't good enough yet which is why we were an 8 seed this year and not a 4-5 seed. The Pelicans got better after Demarcus went down because AD carried that team night in and night out. Lillard and CJ carried that team all year long. Mitchell and Gobert carried that Utah squad. It's time for Towns and Wiggins to actually carry this team to wins and stop blaming the pieces around them. Other guys are working with arguable less around them, yet they are impacting the game a lot more and their teams are winning because of it. You're looking in the wrong place if you were expecting the full MLE to push us to the next level. The core pieces need to do that work.

Absolutely right, Kahns! Adding a good two-way wing and 3-point marksman to our bench can help win some more games. But you are absolutely right that the key to improving to the point where the Wolves can contend for a championship rests on the shoulders of KAT and Wiggins. That's why I don't want to see this organization give up on Wiggins, even though he has continued to frustrate me. Let's lock in KAT with a max extension this summer, spend the full $5.4 MLE we're allowed to spend, draft well, try hard to improve by trading Gorgui and/or Teague and explore sign-and-trades for Belly without giving away any of those guys. We can and should improve the team around KAT, Wiggins and Butler. But in the short run and especially the long run, this team will go as far as KAT and Wiggins carry them. So both those guys absolutely need to improve significantly over the summer. I believe they can.

So I was all on board with this LAST summer. I'm not sure what is going to change drastically with Wiggins between Year 4 and 5. What's going to be different?

KAT will probably keep getting a bit better defensively, but it's hard to see him ever being a stud on that end. He is already an all-star caliber scorer, so at least there is something he does at an elite level.

For me, I'm offering Wiggins and picks to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. When that doesn't work, I offer Wiggins to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan and a top 5 protected pick provided Jordan agrees to re-sign, then turning around and dangling KAT to the Spurs for Kawhi. From here I'm signing 3 point shooters, multiple.

Teague
Butler
Leonard
Gibson
Jordan

Instant top 3 defensive team that solid offensive squad. Also a team that could calm down the shooting percentage of the Rockets and Warriors of this world. 3 lockdown defenders, 3 defenders that can guard several positions, making this team a lot less vulnerable to effective pick-and-roll teams.

Does our window shorten? Probably, but I also think it locks in Butler to re-signing and makes the Wolves a top 3 team in the NBA in the starting lineup.

Okay, rip away!

mrhockey89 wrote:For me, I'm offering Wiggins and picks to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. When that doesn't work, I offer Wiggins to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan and a top 5 protected pick provided Jordan agrees to re-sign, then turning around and dangling KAT to the Spurs for Kawhi. From here I'm signing 3 point shooters, multiple.

Teague
Butler
Leonard
Gibson
Jordan

Instant top 3 defensive team that solid offensive squad. Also a team that could calm down the shooting percentage of the Rockets and Warriors of this world. 3 lockdown defenders, 3 defenders that can guard several positions, making this team a lot less vulnerable to effective pick-and-roll teams.

Does our window shorten? Probably, but I also think it locks in Butler to re-signing and makes the Wolves a top 3 team in the NBA in the starting lineup.

Okay, rip away!

I understand what you are going for. I really do and that might be a damn awesome team but Jordan is on the decline and all of Jordan, butler and Leonard are free agents next year. Is one year worth it when Leonard (rumors are he wanted a big market for sponsorship) and butler coming off injuries

kekgeek1 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:For me, I'm offering Wiggins and picks to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. When that doesn't work, I offer Wiggins to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan and a top 5 protected pick provided Jordan agrees to re-sign, then turning around and dangling KAT to the Spurs for Kawhi. From here I'm signing 3 point shooters, multiple.

Teague
Butler
Leonard
Gibson
Jordan

Instant top 3 defensive team that solid offensive squad. Also a team that could calm down the shooting percentage of the Rockets and Warriors of this world. 3 lockdown defenders, 3 defenders that can guard several positions, making this team a lot less vulnerable to effective pick-and-roll teams.

Does our window shorten? Probably, but I also think it locks in Butler to re-signing and makes the Wolves a top 3 team in the NBA in the starting lineup.

Okay, rip away!

I understand what you are going for. I really do and that might be a damn awesome team but Jordan is on the decline and all of Jordan, butler and Leonard are free agents next year. Is one year worth it when Leonard (rumors are he wanted a big market for sponsorship) and butler coming off injuries

I'm making the assumption that they would want to re-sign because they couldn't possibly find a better scenario to sign in :). Jordan's only 1 year older than Butler, and I do realize he only has a few good years left, but I figure this also buys us time to find a defensive center to replace him.

mrhockey89 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:For me, I'm offering Wiggins and picks to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. When that doesn't work, I offer Wiggins to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan and a top 5 protected pick provided Jordan agrees to re-sign, then turning around and dangling KAT to the Spurs for Kawhi. From here I'm signing 3 point shooters, multiple.

Teague
Butler
Leonard
Gibson
Jordan

Instant top 3 defensive team that solid offensive squad. Also a team that could calm down the shooting percentage of the Rockets and Warriors of this world. 3 lockdown defenders, 3 defenders that can guard several positions, making this team a lot less vulnerable to effective pick-and-roll teams.

Does our window shorten? Probably, but I also think it locks in Butler to re-signing and makes the Wolves a top 3 team in the NBA in the starting lineup.

Okay, rip away!

I understand what you are going for. I really do and that might be a damn awesome team but Jordan is on the decline and all of Jordan, butler and Leonard are free agents next year. Is one year worth it when Leonard (rumors are he wanted a big market for sponsorship) and butler coming off injuries

I'm making the assumption that they would want to re-sign because they couldn't possibly find a better scenario to sign in :). Jordan's only 1 year older than Butler, and I do realize he only has a few good years left, but I figure this also buys us time to find a defensive center to replace him.

I just don't think it's worth throwing away the future while GS still has their big 4. You can't guard them no matter who you add. Their best offense is better than any defense can stop. I think we'd be better than Houston in your scenario, but it just requires too much luck to win a title for me to be fully on board. I'd rather be a perennial playoff contender until the current crop of stars age out and hope we can get a third guy to join Towns and Wiggins to win a title. I don't think Jimmy is good enough to be the best player on a title team so I'm using him as a piece to build the culture here until Towns and Wiggins are ready to take it to the next level. I'm not trying to build a championship team around Jimmy. You're scenario is very tempting though.

mrhockey89 wrote:For me, I'm offering Wiggins and picks to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. When that doesn't work, I offer Wiggins to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan and a top 5 protected pick provided Jordan agrees to re-sign, then turning around and dangling KAT to the Spurs for Kawhi. From here I'm signing 3 point shooters, multiple.

Teague
Butler
Leonard
Gibson
Jordan

Instant top 3 defensive team that solid offensive squad. Also a team that could calm down the shooting percentage of the Rockets and Warriors of this world. 3 lockdown defenders, 3 defenders that can guard several positions, making this team a lot less vulnerable to effective pick-and-roll teams.

Does our window shorten? Probably, but I also think it locks in Butler to re-signing and makes the Wolves a top 3 team in the NBA in the starting lineup.

Okay, rip away!

I actually think that is brilliant and very unlikely. Creative though.

khans2k5 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:For me, I'm offering Wiggins and picks to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. When that doesn't work, I offer Wiggins to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan and a top 5 protected pick provided Jordan agrees to re-sign, then turning around and dangling KAT to the Spurs for Kawhi. From here I'm signing 3 point shooters, multiple.

Teague
Butler
Leonard
Gibson
Jordan

Instant top 3 defensive team that solid offensive squad. Also a team that could calm down the shooting percentage of the Rockets and Warriors of this world. 3 lockdown defenders, 3 defenders that can guard several positions, making this team a lot less vulnerable to effective pick-and-roll teams.

Does our window shorten? Probably, but I also think it locks in Butler to re-signing and makes the Wolves a top 3 team in the NBA in the starting lineup.

Okay, rip away!

I understand what you are going for. I really do and that might be a damn awesome team but Jordan is on the decline and all of Jordan, butler and Leonard are free agents next year. Is one year worth it when Leonard (rumors are he wanted a big market for sponsorship) and butler coming off injuries

I'm making the assumption that they would want to re-sign because they couldn't possibly find a better scenario to sign in :). Jordan's only 1 year older than Butler, and I do realize he only has a few good years left, but I figure this also buys us time to find a defensive center to replace him.

I just don't think it's worth throwing away the future while GS still has their big 4. You can't guard them no matter who you add. Their best offense is better than any defense can stop. I think we'd be better than Houston in your scenario, but it just requires too much luck to win a title for me to be fully on board. I'd rather be a perennial playoff contender until the current crop of stars age out and hope we can get a third guy to join Towns and Wiggins to win a title. I don't think Jimmy is good enough to be the best player on a title team so I'm using him as a piece to build the culture here until Towns and Wiggins are ready to take it to the next level. I'm not trying to build a championship team around Jimmy. You're scenario is very tempting though.

But that "next level" might be the same level we're at, or worse! These two have proven for 3 and 4 seasons respectively that they can't win games when tagged as the main guys. The runway of potential only lasts so long....