Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

This is pretty much where I'm at, Cool. As I've probably repeated too often, this team will only go as far as its young core. If we can't count on at least two of them to become the elite players they were expected to eventually be when drafted, then we're not going to become a championship contender andI don't see a free agent savior who can change that. We should draft the player with the highest upside at #7 as another potential all-star caliber player. And we should use free agency to add non-max players who add toughness and shooting.

Yeah we're on the same page Lip. For a market like ours, you just have to hit on your draft picks. The pick this year is huge. And I think the good news is you can find a very good player at #7, maybe even the best player in the draft if you're smart and get a little lucky.

I think the Wolves could use some vets guys but you have me more on the fence as to how much I would pay for one of those guys. I think the Wolves need to look for the players that nobody really wants but have had success in the league in some form. The Clippers have gotten good play out of Luc and Felton was pretty solid do them. The Bucks got worthwhile minutes from Beas. It's tough to add some of these guys that are more questionable when you have a young team but now that a year has past Thibs may be more comfortable adding a guy that is a little wonky. Lance could have been one of those guys. I'm looking at Terrence Jones. He probably would come really cheap. He takes over 70% of his shots 10 feet in. Fine the Wolves have Towns Dieng and if Healthy Belly to hang around the perimeter. If he can defend mobile PFs I don't care if he can't hit 3's. if he work out you have a nice bench player. If he doesn't...cut him.

IF G Vasquez (or Jarrett Jack) are actually healthy those guys could help this team and probably would also be cheap.

Maybe it's not those guys but Inthink the Wolves need to get creative to find some guys maybe taking a couple chances (most FA are chances of some sort anyway) and hope they pay off. They can do that and still spend a decent chunk (5-10ish million) on at least one guy that's more of a known commodity. Idk it's so tricky and we are over 2 months away.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

Brandon Rush was cheap, gave us shooting, wears a championship ring, and what did that do for us? Not nearly enough. And I actually kinda liked that signing.

A guy like Horford isn't going to put us on his back and carry us to Finals glory - presumably that's what KAT and Wiggins are supposed to do - but he materially improved the fortunes of the Celtics. They won more games than the year prior, won the Eastern Conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals (they lost in the first round last season). If the Wolves did what the Celtics did this year - even if they get swept by Cleveland - it would go down as the team's most successful or second most successful season in team history. I'd gladly have Horford on our squad for that kind of season.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

I hear what your saying but overspending for a high quality player will give you better results than hoping to budget your way thru the Rush's , Hills and Aldrichs of the world. Fans still wanna go the same route the team did last year even after seeing the results?

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

Brandon Rush was cheap, gave us shooting, wears a championship ring, and what did that do for us? Not nearly enough. And I actually kinda liked that signing.

A guy like Horford isn't going to put us on his back and carry us to Finals glory - presumably that's what KAT and Wiggins are supposed to do - but he materially improved the fortunes of the Celtics. They won more games than the year prior, won the Eastern Conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals (they lost in the first round last season). If the Wolves did what the Celtics did this year - even if they get swept by Cleveland - it would go down as the team's most successful or second most successful season in team history. I'd gladly have Horford on our squad for that kind of season.

Q, you overrate Horford and I think you overrate Milsap too. At least in terms of what their impact is on their respective teams. I'm not saying they're bad players, far from it. But yes, KAT and Wig are going to be the ones to lead us to where we want to go. And we don't need to overpay for good, not great players.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

Brandon Rush was cheap, gave us shooting, wears a championship ring, and what did that do for us? Not nearly enough. And I actually kinda liked that signing.

A guy like Horford isn't going to put us on his back and carry us to Finals glory - presumably that's what KAT and Wiggins are supposed to do - but he materially improved the fortunes of the Celtics. They won more games than the year prior, won the Eastern Conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals (they lost in the first round last season). If the Wolves did what the Celtics did this year - even if they get swept by Cleveland - it would go down as the team's most successful or second most successful season in team history. I'd gladly have Horford on our squad for that kind of season.

Q, you overrate Horford and I think you overrate Milsap too. At least in terms of what their impact is on their respective teams. I'm not saying they're bad players, far from it. But yes, KAT and Wig are going to be the ones to lead us to where we want to go. And we don't need to overpay for good, not great players.

Yes we do, especially this summer. This team is not above signing good players no matter how much they cost. If this team doesn't spend that money, it's gone, and even if we did overpay for a good player, at the end of the day, Glen may have to spend into the lux to get the most out of this team (if he doesn't, then it's gonna limit how far this team can go anyway).

and if this team opts to nickel and dime it this summer, is it safe to say that this should never bring up cap space as some sort of asset again? If they can't convince good players to come here, even if overpaid, they're never coming here, because they're damn sure not taking discounts to come here later.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

Brandon Rush was cheap, gave us shooting, wears a championship ring, and what did that do for us? Not nearly enough. And I actually kinda liked that signing.

A guy like Horford isn't going to put us on his back and carry us to Finals glory - presumably that's what KAT and Wiggins are supposed to do - but he materially improved the fortunes of the Celtics. They won more games than the year prior, won the Eastern Conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals (they lost in the first round last season). If the Wolves did what the Celtics did this year - even if they get swept by Cleveland - it would go down as the team's most successful or second most successful season in team history. I'd gladly have Horford on our squad for that kind of season.

Q, you overrate Horford and I think you overrate Milsap too. At least in terms of what their impact is on their respective teams. I'm not saying they're bad players, far from it. But yes, KAT and Wig are going to be the ones to lead us to where we want to go. And we don't need to overpay for good, not great players.

Yes we do, especially this summer. This team is not above signing good players no matter how much they cost. If this team doesn't spend that money, it's gone, and even if we did overpay for a good player, at the end of the day, Glen may have to spend into the lux to get the most out of this team (if he doesn't, then it's gonna limit how far this team can go anyway).

and if this team opts to nickel and dime it this summer, is it safe to say that this should never bring up cap space as some sort of asset again? If they can't convince good players to come here, even if overpaid, they're never coming here, because they're damn sure not taking discounts to come here later.

If you are a good team players take discounts all the time. Look at the Cavs Spurs GS and a few other teams have cheap players because they have a chance to win.

Cool's point is basically if Wiggins Towns plus whoever else you want to believe in being really good on this roster become the guys we think they can be things will take care of themselves. People say spend the money now. Im not really buying that just because this is the last chance to spend a bunch of money you do it. So freaking many sports teams over the years got themselves in trouble doing that type of thing. Fortunately I think Thibs and Layden both realize they need to improve the roster but they are going Robbie prudent as well so they don't hamstring the franchise down the road.

monsterpile wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

Brandon Rush was cheap, gave us shooting, wears a championship ring, and what did that do for us? Not nearly enough. And I actually kinda liked that signing.

A guy like Horford isn't going to put us on his back and carry us to Finals glory - presumably that's what KAT and Wiggins are supposed to do - but he materially improved the fortunes of the Celtics. They won more games than the year prior, won the Eastern Conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals (they lost in the first round last season). If the Wolves did what the Celtics did this year - even if they get swept by Cleveland - it would go down as the team's most successful or second most successful season in team history. I'd gladly have Horford on our squad for that kind of season.

Q, you overrate Horford and I think you overrate Milsap too. At least in terms of what their impact is on their respective teams. I'm not saying they're bad players, far from it. But yes, KAT and Wig are going to be the ones to lead us to where we want to go. And we don't need to overpay for good, not great players.

Yes we do, especially this summer. This team is not above signing good players no matter how much they cost. If this team doesn't spend that money, it's gone, and even if we did overpay for a good player, at the end of the day, Glen may have to spend into the lux to get the most out of this team (if he doesn't, then it's gonna limit how far this team can go anyway).

and if this team opts to nickel and dime it this summer, is it safe to say that this should never bring up cap space as some sort of asset again? If they can't convince good players to come here, even if overpaid, they're never coming here, because they're damn sure not taking discounts to come here later.

If you are a good team players take discounts all the time. Look at the Cavs Spurs GS and a few other teams have cheap players because they have a chance to win.

Cool's point is basically if Wiggins Towns plus whoever else you want to believe in being really good on this roster become the guys we think they can be things will take care of themselves. People say spend the money now. Im not really buying that just because this is the last chance to spend a bunch of money you do it. So freaking many sports teams over the years got themselves in trouble doing that type of thing. Fortunately I think Thibs and Layden both realize they need to improve the roster but they are going Robbie prudent as well so they don't hamstring the franchise down the road.

The Wolves are far from a good team, so they need to add players to get to that point. Wiggins and Towns need to step their games up regardless of who's here and who isn't, especially defensively. There's a difference being prudent and being cheap. Last year they tried to be prudent. It failed in that none of the players Thibs got panned out. This year, they shouldn't attempt the same approach without making their moves for some good players. If everyone's in agreement that the core guys are already here, now is a good time to add those complimentary pieces that are needed, even if they're overpaid. By the time this team is looking for guys to round out a championship franchise-- if they ever get there-- the guys that are signed this summer will be off the books. I'm not saying overpay for this year's Noah or a Deng. I'm saying if there's a good player that could be had and all it costs is money, do what you have to do to get him, because this team can't sit idly and wait to spend on pieces to round out a championship team when you're too shy to make the playoffs.

What is the downside to overpaying a good useful player to come here?

WildWolf2813 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Last year the majority (not me) seemed to be jonesing for Horford and Deng. Well Deng was a bust even earllier than i predicted, and Horford can't keep his team within 40 points of the Cavaliers. My point is I'm not in love with giving anyone max years and money, including Milsap and Ibaka. Neither can take you from a good team to a great team and they haven't lifted their current teams to anything special. I'd rather find lower cost guys who can give you a certain skill or intangible. Guys who you don't have to give more than 2-3 years. Shooting and toughness are the skill and intangible i'd most be looking for.

Brandon Rush was cheap, gave us shooting, wears a championship ring, and what did that do for us? Not nearly enough. And I actually kinda liked that signing.

A guy like Horford isn't going to put us on his back and carry us to Finals glory - presumably that's what KAT and Wiggins are supposed to do - but he materially improved the fortunes of the Celtics. They won more games than the year prior, won the Eastern Conference, and advanced to the Eastern Conference Finals (they lost in the first round last season). If the Wolves did what the Celtics did this year - even if they get swept by Cleveland - it would go down as the team's most successful or second most successful season in team history. I'd gladly have Horford on our squad for that kind of season.

Q, you overrate Horford and I think you overrate Milsap too. At least in terms of what their impact is on their respective teams. I'm not saying they're bad players, far from it. But yes, KAT and Wig are going to be the ones to lead us to where we want to go. And we don't need to overpay for good, not great players.

Yes we do, especially this summer. This team is not above signing good players no matter how much they cost. If this team doesn't spend that money, it's gone, and even if we did overpay for a good player, at the end of the day, Glen may have to spend into the lux to get the most out of this team (if he doesn't, then it's gonna limit how far this team can go anyway).

and if this team opts to nickel and dime it this summer, is it safe to say that this should never bring up cap space as some sort of asset again? If they can't convince good players to come here, even if overpaid, they're never coming here, because they're damn sure not taking discounts to come here later.

If you are a good team players take discounts all the time. Look at the Cavs Spurs GS and a few other teams have cheap players because they have a chance to win.

Cool's point is basically if Wiggins Towns plus whoever else you want to believe in being really good on this roster become the guys we think they can be things will take care of themselves. People say spend the money now. Im not really buying that just because this is the last chance to spend a bunch of money you do it. So freaking many sports teams over the years got themselves in trouble doing that type of thing. Fortunately I think Thibs and Layden both realize they need to improve the roster but they are going Robbie prudent as well so they don't hamstring the franchise down the road.

The Wolves are far from a good team, so they need to add players to get to that point. Wiggins and Towns need to step their games up regardless of who's here and who isn't, especially defensively. There's a difference being prudent and being cheap. Last year they tried to be prudent. It failed in that none of the players Thibs got panned out. This year, they shouldn't attempt the same approach without making their moves for some good players. If everyone's in agreement that the core guys are already here, now is a good time to add those complimentary pieces that are needed, even if they're overpaid. By the time this team is looking for guys to round out a championship franchise-- if they ever get there-- the guys that are signed this summer will be off the books. I'm not saying overpay for this year's Noah or a Deng. I'm saying if there's a good player that could be had and all it costs is money, do what you have to do to get him, because this team can't sit idly and wait to spend on pieces to round out a championship team when you're too shy to make the playoffs.

What is the downside to overpaying a good useful player to come here?

Yep well said Wild

If Wiggins and Towns need to be the stars anyway then we really should look to pair them with a consistently solid guy like a Millsap or Hordford like guy even if it is an overpay. We need the guy who can help us make the playoffs and then let Wiggins and Towns be the go to guys in the playoffs. We have 30 million in cap space. Pek and Ricky eventually coming off the books is another 26 million. So if you spend 25-30 this summer that leaves plenty left for extensions that keep us under the luxury tax. I don't think we should be saving the cap space because you just end up banking too much on Towns and Wiggins to carry this team in the regular season and then play hard in the playoffs. Look at the teams who had to be carried by individuals this year. They burnt out in the playoffs. Harden, Westbrook, IT, etc. We need someone who can lessen the load during the season so Wiggins and Towns have plenty left for the playoffs.

Flexibility is the key. I'm happy to overpay to get certain players, but only on short term deals.

PJ Tucker has expressed interest in signing with the Wolves and fills a void. Good defender, good rebounder and good enough 3pt shooter to draw attention. Could be signed for relatively cheap on a short term deal. He's is 32, but plays like he's a lot younger.

Other targets I see the Wolves making a run at - James Johnson, Pau Gasol (if opts out), Ersan Ilyasova, Taj Gibson, Bojan Bogdanovic, Patrick Patterson, JaMychal Green, Ben McLemore and Tony Snell.