Q12543 wrote:On DeRozan....Yes, he struggled with efficiency as well and then he suddenly popped up to a decent level (around league average) by his 7th freakin' season. But his On/Off numbers are somewhat disturbing. There has been only one season in his entire career where his team has done better with him ON the court versus OFF of it. I realize he's played for some deep, well coached teams in Toronto and now San Antonio, but that says a lot about him.
On Mitchell....I watched a bit of the Utah game last night. Wow, now he takes some tough shots. Wiggins-esque in the number of long two's and mid-range toughies he tried. McHale made a great point. It's not that he's become a bad shooter, it's that he's taking bad shots.
On "just a few tweaks" with Wiggins to get him to be more efficient....I kind of agree here, but keep in mind that he's been through three coaches and he's only gotten worse. Pop is not a good example since he can take a random player from the Y and turn him into an NBA rotation player. He's a freakin' legend. Rudy Gay and something called Bertans are the latest examples.
I haven't watched but 2 Jazz games this year. Mitchell is the only creator on the team which puts a lot of pressure on him.
BUT the bigger reason why I'm skeptical of our ability to trade Wiggins is because of the contract. The player we are describing is not a guy you want to rely on too much on the floor, but it's much, MUCH worse to have a max contract tied up with that. That's the main issue. A team could take Wiggins and try to narrow his role on the court a bit more to help him develop and be more efficient. But you can't narrow that salary. It handicaps a team financially for the next several years, and the gap between that cost and the value you get from Wiggins as a player is one of the biggest in the league, I'd argue.
You are correct that trading him may be an issue. Although, guys I think are untradeable get moved every year. Take George Hill this year. Decent player....but at $18MM this year and next year? Who would have thought the Cavs could unload him with his injury history and that price tag? The Cavs had to take back Delly, but they got Henson and both a first and second round pick as well. I would say Wiggins, even with his contract, should carry this type of value....no? We may have to take back similar contracts, but perhaps guys that are a better fit? I won't claim to know who those players are, but I am sure they are out there.
I don't know the details of the Hill trade, but I don't think the contract is comparable. Yeah, the injuries are a real concern, but that's just 1.5 more years at 18 million for a guy they want as a backup guard who fits what they need as a guy who can stretch the floor, shoot efficiently, and bring some veteran versatility. That contract might even become a bit of an asset as an expiring deal next year.
By comparison, Wiggins has 4.5 more years going from 25 to 33 million. Even if you ignore the 5-10% difference in true shooting percentage (which is HUGE) and the usage Wiggins takes at his inefficiency, the financial difference between those two contracts is apples and oranges.
Q12543 wrote:On "just a few tweaks" with Wiggins to get him to be more efficient....I kind of agree here, but keep in mind that he's been through three coaches and he's only gotten worse. Pop is not a good example since he can take a random player from the Y and turn him into an NBA rotation player. He's a freakin' legend. Rudy Gay and something called Bertans are the latest examples.
Just checked Gay's numbers. His TS% was very similar to Wiggins during his time in Memphis with an average of 52.6%. This season in San Antonio it's 59.8%!!! Pop is amazing.
Wiggins would be ok 2nd option if he could combine his 2nd season efficiency and volume near basket and ability to draw fouls with his current three point accuracy and volume. It would give TS% 57% that would be good enough to make him worthwhile player.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Teams who are rebuilding or probably will want to blow it up and get picks-
1.) Wiggins and two 1sts = Bradley Beal
2.) Wiggins and 1st = Kyle Lowry
3.) Wiggins = Whiteside
4.) Wiggins + Dieng + 1st = Whiteside + Richardson
5.) Wiggins and 1st = Bazemore
6.) Wiggins and 4 1sts = Anthony Davis = LOL
Unfortunately, zero of these proposed trade ideas are realistic, in my opinion.
Wiggins, by himself, is a negative asset. He's likely going to cost at least a first-round pick just to dump him on another team, and that's without taking back anything of value. Beal, Lowry, Bazemore, Richardson, and Davis are potentially made available by their respective teams, but they are not taking back a maxed out Wiggins in return.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Teams who are rebuilding or probably will want to blow it up and get picks-
1.) Wiggins and two 1sts = Bradley Beal
2.) Wiggins and 1st = Kyle Lowry
3.) Wiggins = Whiteside
4.) Wiggins + Dieng + 1st = Whiteside + Richardson
5.) Wiggins and 1st = Bazemore
6.) Wiggins and 4 1sts = Anthony Davis = LOL
Unfortunately, zero of these proposed trade ideas are realistic, in my opinion.
Wiggins, by himself, is a negative asset. He's likely going to cost at least a first-round pick just to dump him on another team, and that's without taking back anything of value. Beal, Lowry, Bazemore, Richardson, and Davis are potentially made available by their respective teams, but they are not taking back a maxed out Wiggins in return.
If Im atlanta, i will take wiggins and 1st for bazmore in a heartbeat. No one is signing with the hawks. They are prepared to go tru the process themselves and accumulating draft picks and bad contracts are part if the process. Wiggins maybe a bad contract but he is a starter and young enough to give the fans some hope.
WolvesFan21 wrote:Teams who are rebuilding or probably will want to blow it up and get picks-
1.) Wiggins and two 1sts = Bradley Beal
2.) Wiggins and 1st = Kyle Lowry
3.) Wiggins = Whiteside
4.) Wiggins + Dieng + 1st = Whiteside + Richardson
5.) Wiggins and 1st = Bazemore
6.) Wiggins and 4 1sts = Anthony Davis = LOL
Unfortunately, zero of these proposed trade ideas are realistic, in my opinion.
Wiggins, by himself, is a negative asset. He's likely going to cost at least a first-round pick just to dump him on another team, and that's without taking back anything of value. Beal, Lowry, Bazemore, Richardson, and Davis are potentially made available by their respective teams, but they are not taking back a maxed out Wiggins in return.
With any trade proposal they are going to be slightly in our favor, otherwise we wouldn't do it would we? I think most of those are possible but it all depends on how desperate the teams are of starting over and blowing it up.
Of course you do have to match salaries, what team has young talent they want to give up plus 1st round picks? The answer is slim. We also have 12 teams going into the offseason with 20+ million in cap space, so the FA signings will bring down the need for half those teams to even consider trades. They can just sign FA's and not give up 1st round picks.
Hopefully games like last night convince some GM out there that they can get good production out of Andrew, if only [insert your magic cure - the right system, better coach, etc.].
Q12543 wrote:On "just a few tweaks" with Wiggins to get him to be more efficient....I kind of agree here, but keep in mind that he's been through three coaches and he's only gotten worse. Pop is not a good example since he can take a random player from the Y and turn him into an NBA rotation player. He's a freakin' legend. Rudy Gay and something called Bertans are the latest examples.
Just checked Gay's numbers. His TS% was very similar to Wiggins during his time in Memphis with an average of 52.6%. This season in San Antonio it's 59.8%!!! Pop is amazing.
Wiggins would be ok 2nd option if he could combine his 2nd season efficiency and volume near basket and ability to draw fouls with his current three point accuracy and volume. It would give TS% 57% that would be good enough to make him worthwhile player.
Yup. Rudy Gay underachieves for the first 10+ years of his career, then goes to San Antonio and now he's suddenly a very good player. He's no superstar, but he's efficient, makes the extra pass, defends...so jealous.
Q12543 wrote:On "just a few tweaks" with Wiggins to get him to be more efficient....I kind of agree here, but keep in mind that he's been through three coaches and he's only gotten worse. Pop is not a good example since he can take a random player from the Y and turn him into an NBA rotation player. He's a freakin' legend. Rudy Gay and something called Bertans are the latest examples.
Just checked Gay's numbers. His TS% was very similar to Wiggins during his time in Memphis with an average of 52.6%. This season in San Antonio it's 59.8%!!! Pop is amazing.
Wiggins would be ok 2nd option if he could combine his 2nd season efficiency and volume near basket and ability to draw fouls with his current three point accuracy and volume. It would give TS% 57% that would be good enough to make him worthwhile player.
Yup. Rudy Gay underachieves for the first 10+ years of his career, then goes to San Antonio and now he's suddenly a very good player. He's no superstar, but he's efficient, makes the extra pass, defends...so jealous.
I ripped Rudy Gay for years BUT the last few before his injury and going to the Spurs I said the guy was a pretty good player and when the Kings signed him to his deal I thought it was a pretty good one. I remember back early in Wiggins career Gay 2would have stretches he would just Own Wiggins on both ends like a man. Obviosuly the Spurs are gonna get mroe out of him. Its also terrific he recovered so well from his injury. He actually fits the new NBA pretty well with his length and strength. My issue a few years ago was the Kings fan that said Gay was good enough to carry a team to the playoffs. Oh man I just laughed at him. Gay like Wiggins wasn't a bust you just want more because it felt like it was always there.
