Minnesota Sports Forum

Milsap would still be my #1 target. Yes, he's getting older, but he is a mobile, defensive-minded PF that can also produce offensively. He can play the 4 against small-ball or big-ball lineups.

Atlanta has been a top 6 defensive team for 3 straight years and he is the constant. He has been #1 or #2 in minutes played in each of those three seasons. He has the gravitas to go after KAT and Wig when they slack off defensively, while still being able to actually contribute 30 MPG (unlike KG, Prince, or Miller).

I think inserting him into the starting lineup along with, say, PJ Tucker at the 3 would have a huge impact on our defense.

Q12543 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I'm not sure Ersan will come here after we sign Ibaka... :)

Ibaka seems to be regressing even though he is still relatively young. And the trend started in OKC, so this is not just a "he needs a change of scenery" issue.

Year - PER/WS48
12-13 - 19.4/.181
13-14 - 19.6/.173
14-15 - 16.6/.127
15-16 - 13.9/.105
16-17 - 16.4/.101 (13.8/.085 with Toronto)

For how much he'd cost us, this trend is troubling.

Yes, but his #'s with just Orlando actually suggest the trend was back upwards. He's 27 years old, so the "window" is aligned properly. He adds both 3-point shooting and shot blocking. I am hoping for an early Toronto exit from the playoffs, increasing the chances he might look elsewhere...

Looking at all the unrestricted FA bigs, Ibaka seems to fit the best for what Thibs said he is looking for. Can you find someone better?

[Edit: Never mind! I just saw your Milsap post. I agree he would be solid, but for me, he would be my second target behing Ibaka. ]

60WinTim wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I'm not sure Ersan will come here after we sign Ibaka... :)

Ibaka seems to be regressing even though he is still relatively young. And the trend started in OKC, so this is not just a "he needs a change of scenery" issue.

Year - PER/WS48
12-13 - 19.4/.181
13-14 - 19.6/.173
14-15 - 16.6/.127
15-16 - 13.9/.105
16-17 - 16.4/.101 (13.8/.085 with Toronto)

For how much he'd cost us, this trend is troubling.

Yes, but his #'s with just Orlando actually suggest the trend was back upwards. He's 27 years old, so the "window" is aligned properly. He adds both 3-point shooting and shot blocking. I am hoping for an early Toronto exit from the playoffs, increasing the chances he might look elsewhere...

Looking at all the unrestricted FA bigs, Ibaka seems to fit the best for what Thibs said he is looking for. Can you find someone better?

[Edit: Never mind! I just saw your Milsap post. I agree he would be solid, but for me, he would be my second target behing Ibaka. ]

Tim hit the nail on the head with Ibaka as his age make more sense. I'm with Q Ibaka' stats don't look that great but I watched a Raptors game that wasn't against the Wolves a couple moths ago and Ibaka was a significant catalyst to them getting back and winning the game and I don't think he put up crazy stats for that game either but he did just about everything you could want. How much would I pay for him? Idk I'd love to have Millsap but I think that's a pretty long shot but then again getting Ibaka probably is too.

Going big would be signing Rudy Gay, Millsap or Ibaka. In each case I'd be looking for a two year deal. If keeping Lavine isn't important, we could go longer term, but a two year deal allows us to keep Zach in the fold if he shows substantial improvement as a defender between now and when we have to make a decision with him. I also wouldn't be opposed to trading Zach if he is a key part of getting a top 15 player like Paul George or Butler.

If we can land any of the following guys at a reasonable salary, I like Taj Gibson, Amir Johnson, PJ Tucker, Sefolosha, Tony Allen and Bogut.

I just depends on the deals we can get. If we have to dish out a 4 year deal to either you have to go Ibaka over Millsap because of the big age difference and the fact Ibaka is and will always be in his prime during his deal while Millsap will be exiting his in the next couple years. If you can get away with a 2 year deal you go Millsap for sure because he's just a superior player at the 4. My ideal would be to max Millsap for 2 years and draft Isaac to give him two full years to bulk up some more and get ready to be the versatile 4 of the future for us. If we got Ibaka I would rather draft a Collins or Monk as Collins would be a third versatile big next to Towns and Ibaka as a 4/5 or Monk would be the bench scorer combo guard we need off the bench.

TeamRicky wrote:Going big would be signing Rudy Gay, Millsap or Ibaka. In each case I'd be looking for a two year deal. If keeping Lavine isn't important, we could go longer term, but a two year deal allows us to keep Zach in the fold if he shows substantial improvement as a defender between now and when we have to make a decision with him. I also wouldn't be opposed to trading Zach if he is a key part of getting a top 15 player like Paul George or Butler.

If we can land any of the following guys at a reasonable salary, I like Taj Gibson, Amir Johnson, PJ Tucker, Sefolosha, Tony Allen and Bogut.

Zach's just not going to have time to show anything else for his extension. The extension decision is made in October. That's less than a month to show he's improved on defense. I agree 2 years is ideal from a flexibilty standpoint, but why would a guy like Ibaka in his prime sign a 2 year deal with us when he's gonna get a 4 year deal from someone else?

khans2k5 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Going big would be signing Rudy Gay, Millsap or Ibaka. In each case I'd be looking for a two year deal. If keeping Lavine isn't important, we could go longer term, but a two year deal allows us to keep Zach in the fold if he shows substantial improvement as a defender between now and when we have to make a decision with him. I also wouldn't be opposed to trading Zach if he is a key part of getting a top 15 player like Paul George or Butler.

If we can land any of the following guys at a reasonable salary, I like Taj Gibson, Amir Johnson, PJ Tucker, Sefolosha, Tony Allen and Bogut.

Zach's just not going to have time to show anything else for his extension. The extension decision is made in October. That's less than a month to show he's improved on defense. I agree 2 years is ideal from a flexibilty standpoint, but why would a guy like Ibaka in his prime sign a 2 year deal with us when he's gonna get a 4 year deal from someone else?

I don't disagree with signing Ibaka for 4 years. I'd like it. I think the board is divided on whether we should plan our cap space so that we can afford to give Zach a large contract and I'm in the camp that at this point, we shouldn't. I think KAT gets a max contract for sure and Wiggins likely gets one too. I don't think its prudent to hold a ton of capspace for a guy who hasn't been a plus player in three years and will be coming off an injury. Do I want to keep Zach? Sure at the right price, but Ibaka, Millsap and Gay are proven two way players and I'd rather spend my capspace on proven talent.

monsterpile wrote:

60WinTim wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:I'm not sure Ersan will come here after we sign Ibaka... :)

Ibaka seems to be regressing even though he is still relatively young. And the trend started in OKC, so this is not just a "he needs a change of scenery" issue.

Year - PER/WS48
12-13 - 19.4/.181
13-14 - 19.6/.173
14-15 - 16.6/.127
15-16 - 13.9/.105
16-17 - 16.4/.101 (13.8/.085 with Toronto)

For how much he'd cost us, this trend is troubling.

Yes, but his #'s with just Orlando actually suggest the trend was back upwards. He's 27 years old, so the "window" is aligned properly. He adds both 3-point shooting and shot blocking. I am hoping for an early Toronto exit from the playoffs, increasing the chances he might look elsewhere...

Looking at all the unrestricted FA bigs, Ibaka seems to fit the best for what Thibs said he is looking for. Can you find someone better?

[Edit: Never mind! I just saw your Milsap post. I agree he would be solid, but for me, he would be my second target behing Ibaka. ]

Tim hit the nail on the head with Ibaka as his age make more sense. I'm with Q Ibaka' stats don't look that great but I watched a Raptors game that wasn't against the Wolves a couple moths ago and Ibaka was a significant catalyst to them getting back and winning the game and I don't think he put up crazy stats for that game either but he did just about everything you could want. How much would I pay for him? Idk I'd love to have Millsap but I think that's a pretty long shot but then again getting Ibaka probably is too.

Orlando had the 16th rated defense the year before last. Ibaka was their big signing. They were 22nd this year in defensive rating, so they actually got worse with him on the roster. His net rating was -5, which is terrible.

He simply isn't the impact player on defense that he once was. I don't know why, but there are multiple stats, from team stats to ESPN's DRPM that show the same trend. Yes, he has good name recognition and is the right age, but that's no reason to overpay a player that is clearly in decline.

I honestly believe Dieng is just as effective on defense as Ibaka these days....and he's cheaper.

Good points on Ibaka. Millsap and Gay are both having a bigger impact than Ibaka based on advanced stats. Ibaka is younger. On a two year deal with the idea of trying to keep Zach, I'd opt for Millsap. If a 4 year deal, I probably like Rudy Gay the best since he could push Wiggins to 2 and Zach to 6th man. Ibaka is also a good alternative.

Q remember Ibaka didn't play for Orlando the whole year. He didn't seem to help them but Toronto went from 19th in defensive efficiency to 10th after the Ibaka trade. Was it all him? No Tucker probablybhelped as well so probably not but let's also remember the Magic had other changes to their roster too so it wasn't just Ibaka as their centerpiece and Vogel is supposed to be a good defensive coach. Ibaka went to a good team and his net rating seemed to go up. He just logged a efficient 19-14 and 3 blocks in a loss to the Bucks today. No I don't want to overpay him but I don't know if he is on the decline or not. He is a unique player and I think he is one of those guys that's over and underrated at the same time.

Also that Malcolm Brogdon is pretty good. I guess a rookie can be a worthwhile contributor after all. :)