Mr. Brightside wrote:If Tatum falls, he's probably the pick. However, we'd likely receive a lot of calls for a trade. Maybe Sacramento trades up from 10. They take Fox at 5 and Tatum at 7?
For me, it comes down to Lauri Markannen and OG Anunoby. Markannen has a chance to be a special shooter and moves very well for a 7 footer. Anunoby is an NBA defender right now and could likely play the small ball 4 spot at times due to his length and strength. He's very raw, but Thibs may fall in love.
I want nothing to do with Isaac. I don't understand the love. He may be the biggest boom/bust pick in the top 10. He's an average shooter, he's not big enough to guard 4s, and not quick enough to guard 3s. He's actually not that athletic either. He's a total projection that will likely not contribute in the near future.
Give me the NBA shooter or the NBA defender. Not the guy who will take 3 years to even get on the court and who knows how good he'll turn out to be.
I'm kind of with you on Isaac, Brightside. I think he could be a halfway decent shooter, but I've got all sorts of concerns, starting with his incredibly skinny frame, which I think is really going to limit him at the next level and exacerbates a weakness for us as a team, because we already have a ton of guys who are not physical and are relatively easily pushed around the court by opponents. He also looks surprisingly slow when you watch those highlights. And while his length would definitely help him, I just don't see him being the defender that some people seem to project him as in part because of the size and what appears to me to be a little lack of quickness. Are there combine results on him that indicate lateral foot speed? From what I can tell, he can't touch a candle defensively to Josh Jackson or arguably to Anunoby. His handles are pretty good for a dude that long, and he does seem to be pretty crafty about protecting the ball, but even in his highlights I see him avoiding the contact on drives, and settling for long jumpers and fadeaway too much for my taste. For all you analytics guys, how many turnaround fadeaways and long 2 pointers are you willing to take in order to get his 3 pointers and occasional dunks and layups? I don't quite like the ratio I'm seeing (again, in the highlights, so I wonder if anybody has stats on the type of shots and spots on the floor he's taken). I like that he seems to have a bit of an all-around game, as opposed to Markkanen, but there's nothing there that really stands out to me and says, "hey, see this thing I can do, it's going to help me be really successful against NBA competition." Now if he improves in all areas, or really becomes an elite shooter, then he could really be an asset. But from what I can tell, that's a big IF.
Edit: Also, if you don't take the Jimmy Butler trade out of those options, you're crazy. The pundits would universally hail that as highway robbery and they'd be right. Chicago would never offer that deal. If they trade Jimmy Butler, it's gotta be for something better than the 7th pick. No way in hell they'd do that.
From the numbers we have Isaac weighs the same as Tatum who isn't really that strong. Markkanen might not be able to guard anyone and plays weak. There are no combine results from a few of the top guys including Isaac. Isaac to me is a combo forward that could end up some day being a guy with the length to play as a small ball center. Obviously if Isaac had no concerns including shot selection you pointed out (although some of his turnaround fall always he does very well to get squared up)...well he would be a top 2 pick. The highlights I posted early on this thread look really good but obviously he wasn't doing that all they time or again the guy would be a top pick in this draft. Comparing the 2 I'm not a fan of Josh Jackson's shot. Defensively yeah jackson's mobility looks terrific. He is really skinny though.
From what I see on Issac he only has length working for him. I was hoping to see standout athleticism but everything about him seems really average, including his desire to get physical. If his major asset is potential I don't see a super high ceiling. NBA rotation yes because of size, but I don't see how he's going to be much of a force on either end because he just doesn't separate himself with speed.
thedoper wrote:From what I see on Issac he only has length working for him. I was hoping to see standout athleticism but everything about him seems really average, including his desire to get physical. If his major asset is potential I don't see a super high ceiling. NBA rotation yes because of size, but I don't see how he's going to be much of a force on either end because he just doesn't separate himself with speed.
I read similar writeups about how average Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green were projected to be. Not saying he will be close to their impact, but you can't dismiss it either.
thedoper wrote:From what I see on Issac he only has length working for him. I was hoping to see standout athleticism but everything about him seems really average, including his desire to get physical. If his major asset is potential I don't see a super high ceiling. NBA rotation yes because of size, but I don't see how he's going to be much of a force on either end because he just doesn't separate himself with speed.
I read similar writeups about how average Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green were projected to be. Not saying he will be close to their impact, but you can't dismiss it either.
He may exceed my expectations. It is only what I see in the footage. If we pick him I hope he's great.
I mean...Isaac is 6'11. How many guys that big move like a top end wing? Not many. If you put a wing on him he'll be able to shot over him with ease and if you put a big on him he appears at least to me to be quick enough to get around a lot of bigs in the NBA. He's not as quick as say a Jackson or Tatum, but he's got major height and length over both of them making him a great candidate as a combo forward long-term whereas Jackson and Tatum are true wings. If Isaac could move like Jackson or Tatum he'd be the number 1 pick hands down. So you sacrifice some quickness with a guy as big as he is, but he can handle the ball and shoot the ball and at his specific measurements it provides matchup problems for most of the guys teams could put on him.
I know so little about these guys except what I read... their measurements... and a few glimpses on tv.
But with Wiggins and KAT and even LaVine... I dig the idea of a long, versatile WILLING defender who doesn't demand the basketball. If Isaac can become a Patrick Patterson or Marvin Williams type player... win.
khans2k5 wrote:I mean...Isaac is 6'11. How many guys that big move like a top end wing? Not many. If you put a wing on him he'll be able to shot over him with ease and if you put a big on him he appears at least to me to be quick enough to get around a lot of bigs in the NBA. He's not as quick as say a Jackson or Tatum, but he's got major height and length over both of them making him a great candidate as a combo forward long-term whereas Jackson and Tatum are true wings. If Isaac could move like Jackson or Tatum he'd be the number 1 pick hands down. So you sacrifice some quickness with a guy as big as he is, but he can handle the ball and shoot the ball and at his specific measurements it provides matchup problems for most of the guys teams could put on him.
I think this is a good point. In the NBA he may be a positional tweener though that is my counter. Could be too slow to play the 3 and too weak to play the 4 at a super high level. He's an NBA player no doubt, just looks more like 2nd unit speed and athleticism to me. It could flip and he could be the matchup problem as you state. I am just failing to see the bounce I was expecting when looking at the tape. Obviously this is not a perfect science.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I know so little about these guys except what I read... their measurements... and a few glimpses on tv.
But with Wiggins and KAT and even LaVine... I dig the idea of a long, versatile WILLING defender who doesn't demand the basketball. If Isaac can become a Patrick Patterson or Marvin Williams type player... win.
I think that's kind of what I saw as a ceiling. I guess I was just hoping for more.
khans2k5 wrote:I mean...Isaac is 6'11. How many guys that big move like a top end wing? Not many. If you put a wing on him he'll be able to shot over him with ease and if you put a big on him he appears at least to me to be quick enough to get around a lot of bigs in the NBA. He's not as quick as say a Jackson or Tatum, but he's got major height and length over both of them making him a great candidate as a combo forward long-term whereas Jackson and Tatum are true wings. If Isaac could move like Jackson or Tatum he'd be the number 1 pick hands down. So you sacrifice some quickness with a guy as big as he is, but he can handle the ball and shoot the ball and at his specific measurements it provides matchup problems for most of the guys teams could put on him.
I think this is a good point. In the NBA he may be a positional tweener though that is my counter. Could be too slow to play the 3 and too weak to play the 4 at a super high level. He's an NBA player no doubt, just looks more like 2nd unit speed and athleticism to me. It could flip and he could be the matchup problem as you state. I am just failing to see the bounce I was expecting when looking at the tape. Obviously this is not a perfect science.
Remember the league is transitioning into a new type of "4"...
Harrison Barnes is a 4. Teams want guys like Paul George and Carmelo Anthony at the 4. The days of Antonio Davis next to Dale Davis are long gone (outside of New Orleans).
khans2k5 wrote:I mean...Isaac is 6'11. How many guys that big move like a top end wing? Not many. If you put a wing on him he'll be able to shot over him with ease and if you put a big on him he appears at least to me to be quick enough to get around a lot of bigs in the NBA. He's not as quick as say a Jackson or Tatum, but he's got major height and length over both of them making him a great candidate as a combo forward long-term whereas Jackson and Tatum are true wings. If Isaac could move like Jackson or Tatum he'd be the number 1 pick hands down. So you sacrifice some quickness with a guy as big as he is, but he can handle the ball and shoot the ball and at his specific measurements it provides matchup problems for most of the guys teams could put on him.
I think this is a good point. In the NBA he may be a positional tweener though that is my counter. Could be too slow to play the 3 and too weak to play the 4 at a super high level. He's an NBA player no doubt, just looks more like 2nd unit speed and athleticism to me. It could flip and he could be the matchup problem as you state. I am just failing to see the bounce I was expecting when looking at the tape. Obviously this is not a perfect science.
Remember the league is transitioning into a new type of "4"...
Harrison Barnes is a 4. Teams want guys like Paul George and Carmelo Anthony at the 4. The days of Antonio Davis next to Dale Davis are long gone (outside of New Orleans).
This is where I'm coming from. I didn't think that Issac has speed or athleticism to fight through at the 4, and certainly not the speed to be a wing. When I said weak I mean power, like explosive athletic power. Not brute force a la the Davis boys.
