The measurements are in, the measurements are in!!!

[Coolbreeze44]

I have read what a complete animal Bell is at the combine. And though he will never be a great two way player, I'm betting his best skills will translate to the NBA. In fact, i bet he's a can't miss rotational guy. He also seems to be a Thibs kind of player. You don't take him at 6 or 7, but he would be a nice prize in the middle of the first round.

[Monster]

I have read what a complete animal Bell is at the combine. And though he will never be a great two way player, I'm betting his best skills will translate to the NBA. In fact, i bet he's a can't miss rotational guy. He also seems to be a Thibs kind of player. You don't take him at 6 or 7, but he would be a nice prize in the middle of the first round.

I'll be surprised if he goes that high. Late 1st if what DX expects him to be his ceiling. I'll say this after watching some highlights he has some ball handling skills to be able to drive to the hoop. There are a couple transition plays where he does a eurostep to finish. I didn't know he had that. I like Bell a lot it would be great to get a guy like that.

It's going to be interesting to see how this draft plays out with teams that have picks outside the lottery because of the expanded rosters. Teams may be less likely to deal a pick in the 2nd round because they might actually be able to keep them around. Late 1sts are guys they could MAYBE even send to the d-league with those last spots for a chunk of the season before calling them up. I'm guessing there will still be late 2nds up for sale at some point especially because there are a couple teams with a bunch if I remember right. DX has a guy like Thornwell projected there right now. I think a lot of folks here would be thrilled if all the Wolves had to do to get him was for Glen to pull out the checkbook.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

As you all know, I love the measurement aspect of player evaluations. But even I don't start there. The first thing I look at are what Q calls the "do shit" stats -- rebounds, steals and/or blocks (deflections if you have access to those advanced stats). If I see a PF or C with big rebounds or block numbers, then overhead reach is my primary check on whether they can excel similarly in the NBA. Then I look at strength/weight to get a sense of their potential to hold position down low and block out for rebounding position and shot-blocking.

That's why I'm intrigued by Zach Collins and Ike. Consider the following:'

1. Collins averaged 10.3 boards and 3.1 blocks per 30 minutes. Those are elite college stats. Then the combine shows he has the overhead length of an NBA center (9'3) and I take him seriously as an elite NBA prospect. In addition, scouting reports universally praise his quickness and motor. Analysts also praise his shooting. Watching his tourney play and video highlights confirm his motor, quickness and shooting potential. Importantly, his tourney play helps counter some of the skepticism associated with the competitive caliber of his team's conference. Of course he only averaged 17 minutes per game, so that has to be taken into consideration, but based on what I've read and seen, it doesn't concern me much. It just suggests it will probably take him longer to develop once he gets to the NBA.

2. Ike Anigbogu averaged 10.8 boards and 2.7 blocks per 30 minutes. Those are similarly elite college stats and especially impressive given his young age -- only 18 as a freshman. Then we find out Ike has a 9'2.5 reach and enormous 7'6 wingspan. Then we find out he's over 250 pounds with 5.4% body fat. The guy's a brick house! Scouting reports praise his motor, work ethic and lower body/core strength. All that adds up to a very intriguing prospect.

You bring up great insight on Collins, but my concern for this team, and for a "white guy" PF/C in the modern day NBA. My concern for 97% of NBA white guys besides for Adams, Gortot and Nurkic, does he play with a nasty attitude and does he shy away from contact?! If so, like the guys I mentioned before, he would be a nice addition for us. But he has to be willing to play in the trenches, battle hard for rebounds and use his athleticism and length to back down and hustle. If not, and want to be another wing player and soft like a Lamarcus Aldridge....I would rather pass. Go for a scorer in Markkanen.

As for Ike, I watched a lot of UCLA ball this season and everytime I saw Ike play, I had to remind myself that he was on of the youngest players in all of college ball but was more physically dominant and naturally big (Shaq type thick) as only 18. I really like this player if we want to develop that defensive corner stone PF. I worry about his IQ tho.

Collins is a very aggressive player on both sides of the court. He doesn't have the strength and size to be an enforcer on the court but he challenges everything on both sides of the court (blocks and rebounds). That's a big reason why I like him. He'll actually need to tone it down a little bit at the next level because he fouls a lot, but I'd rather teach a guy how to not foul than have to make a matador give a shit.

[Lipoli390]

By the way, for comparison purposes, Gorgui has a 9'3.5 overhead reach and 7'3.5 wingspan.

[Lipoli390]

Here are the overhead reach/wingspans of the NBA's top shot-blockers this past season:

1. Rudy Gobert: 9'7, 7'8.5
2. Anthony Davis: 9'0, 7'5.5
3. Myles Turner: 9'4, 7'4
4. Whiteside: 7'4 wingspan. Overhead reach not listed
5. Porzingis: Not Listed
6. Greek Freak: 7'4 wingspan. Overhead reach not listed
7. D'Andre Jordan: 9'5.5, 7'6
8. Brook Lopez: 9'5, 7'5.5
9. Kevin Durant: 9'2, 7'4.75
10. Serge Ibaka: 9'3, 7'3
11. Robin Lopez: Same as Brook
12. Draymond Green: 8'9, 7'1.75
13. John Henson: 9'4, 7'5
14. Kyle O'Quinn: 9'2, 7'4.75
15. Al Horford: 8'11, 7'0.75
16. Cousins: 9'5, 7'5.75
17. Alex Len: 7'3.5, Overhead reach not listed
18. KAT: 9'5, 7'3.5 (not sure about his reach. One was 9'1 the other 9'5. I'd guess 9'3)
19. Dwight Howard: 9'3.5, 7'4.5

As you can see, with 3 exceptions, the League's top shot-blockers all have overhead reaches of at least 9'2 and most are at least to 9'3. I'm assuming that Whiteside, Porzingis and Len all have at least a 9'2 overhead reach based on their wingspans and just watching them play). The 3 exceptions are Davis at 9'0, Horford at 8'11 and Green at 8'9. And I suspect that the Anthony Davis numbers is inaccurate. Watching him and considering his enormous 7'5.5 wingspan, I have no doubt his overhear reach is at least 9'3.

So if we're looking to add shot-blocking through the draft, then it will have to be someone who (1) has already shown shot-blocking ability in college, and (2) who has an overhead reach of at least 9'2, preferably 9'3 or above.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

PLAYER POS BODY FAT % HAND LENGTH (INCHES) HAND WIDTH (INCHES) HEIGHT W/O SHOES HEIGHT W/ SHOES STANDING REACH WEIGHT (LBS) WINGSPAN
Jonathan Jeanne PF-C 8.70% 9.50 10.00 7' 0.75'' 7' 2'' 9' 5.5'' 207.4 7' 6.5''
Thomas Bryant PF-C 9.40% 9.50 10.25 6' 9.5'' 6' 10.75'' 9' 4.5'' 247.8 7' 6''
Tony Bradley C 12.00% 9.50 9.50 6' 9.25'' 6' 10.75'' 9' 4.5'' 248.8 7' 5''
Justin Patton C 7.80% 8.75 9.75 6' 10'' 6' 11.25'' 9' 3.5'' 229.0 7' 3''
Zach Collins PF-C 8.90% 8.75 9.25 6' 10.25'' 7' 0'' 9' 3'' 232.2 7' 1''
Chris Boucher PF 5.40% 9.25 10.50 6' 8'' 6' 9.5'' 9' 2.5'' 182.2 7' 4''
Ike Anigbogu C 5.40% 9.50 10.00 6' 8.5'' 6' 9.75'' 9' 2.5'' 252.2 7' 6.25''

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I have read what a complete animal Bell is at the combine. And though he will never be a great two way player, I'm betting his best skills will translate to the NBA. In fact, i bet he's a can't miss rotational guy. He also seems to be a Thibs kind of player. You don't take him at 6 or 7, but he would be a nice prize in the middle of the first round.

Yeah, I made a spreadsheet charting per 40 pace adjusted stats of the top 15 forwards and bigs generally (can't seem to attach it here for some reason), and Bell's stats suggest he stacks up pretty well against the competition. He's got one of the best 2PT% (4th), he's 4th in rebounding, he's also near the top in steals (3rd) and blocks (3rd), not great but not bad in assists, and he commits fewer fouls than all but 1 guy. He's not a scorer, and his FT% is not great (69%), and he's not going to stretch the floor which is probably going to be the biggest limitation for him, but given his athleticism in combination with those stats, he looks like he'll be a pretty good hustle defender who doesn't hurt you with a lot of mistakes. It's a shame it looks like he can't stretch the floor much because then he'd have great 3 and D potential.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I put the spreadsheet that I made in Google Drive (per 40 pace adjusted), and if you want to check it out, you can check it out here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz3yN9KcrJzjNGRsOS1CZ01PejA

In each category, the darker the stats, the better they are compared to the others. The lighter, the worse. On a later spreadsheet, I've highlighted a couple of good 3PT%s pink (Rabb and Z Collins) because they are based on relatively low volume.

A couple quick takeaways.

Nobody talks about John Collins, and maybe his game won't translate as well, but he far surpasses everyone else in scoring, and he also gets the most FTs and rebounds, including offensive rebounds.

Markkanen looks like a really legit shooter since his FT% is also really high, and he's pretty good about not turning the ball over or fouling too much--although that may be because he doesn't pass much and is absolute worst of the bunch in steals and blocks.

Zack Collins' stats are pretty interesting. Best in shot blocking, tied for second best rebounder, 2nd in FTs made, 3rd best in 2PT%, 2nd in overall scoring, and his 3PT% was 47% BUT it was based on a low number of attempts, although his FG% suggests he could potentially become a consistent threat out there. His measurements and athleticism should put a damper on excitement over him, but the stats suggest he could end up being a good player.

Ok, gotta run. If you are unfamiliar with Excel, but can download the file, highlight all and use "custom sort" to sort out top to bottom in any column/category you are interested in.

[Monster]

I put the spreadsheet that I made in Google Drive (per 40 pace adjusted), and if you want to check it out, you can check it out here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz3yN9KcrJzjNGRsOS1CZ01PejA

In each category, the darker the stats, the better they are compared to the others. The lighter, the worse. On a later spreadsheet, I've highlighted a couple of good 3PT%s pink (Rabb and Z Collins) because they are based on relatively low volume.

A couple quick takeaways.

Nobody talks about John Collins, and maybe his game won't translate as well, but he far surpasses everyone else in scoring, and he also gets the most FTs and rebounds, including offensive rebounds.

Markkanen looks like a really legit shooter since his FT% is also really high, and he's pretty good about not turning the ball over or fouling too much--although that may be because he doesn't pass much and is absolute worst of the bunch in steals and blocks.

Zack Collins' stats are pretty interesting. Best in shot blocking, tied for second best rebounder, 2nd in FTs made, 3rd best in 2PT%, 2nd in overall scoring, and his 3PT% was 47% BUT it was based on a low number of attempts, although his FG% suggests he could potentially become a consistent threat out there. His measurements and athleticism should put a damper on excitement over him, but the stats suggest he could end up being a good player.

Ok, gotta run. If you are unfamiliar with Excel, but can download the file, highlight all and use "custom sort" to sort out top to bottom in any column/category you are interested in.

Really nice work. I'll look at it closer a bit later.

On John Collins...Lip was talking about how he really liked him weeks ago so I looked into him. As you noted the guy was highly productive and hasn't turned 20 yet. What I have read and listened to draft experts on podcasts the concern is defense. Various people even say he flat out can't guard anyone. It looks like he may be moving up the board though. Just for fun compare his production to the monster sophomore year Blake griffin had before he was drafted. John Collins had a big year as a scorer and rebounder.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Ok, I've updated my bigs chart to include more guys, so now the list is up to 24 and you have to use the new link below.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz3yN9KcrJzjaG5ESzYwVnp5OGc

Wow, looking through this, while the very top players projected in the draft seem to be guards, this draft definitely seems to have a lot of pretty solid or promising looking bigs. Again, download, use excel, and sort by stat if you want to do some research on your own.

A couple other thoughts having looked at this larger list.

First, Jeanne looks like he could actually be legit. Dude looks skinny as a scarecrow, but his block rate (5.7) really stands out (for perspective, second is 4, third is 3.5, then 3.2 and the rest are all around 2 or less). He's also second in rebounding, 6th in steals(!?), and pretty good at not turning the ball over (2nd out of 24). Tough to tell with those stats abroad, but his combine performance seemed to back this up. He might go pretty high for somebody hoping to get the next Gobert.

Next, Swanigan looks pretty good with a really interesting skill set. He's actually right behind Josh Jackson in assists (2nd overall with 3.7), he's pretty easily 1st in rebounds with 15.2, his 3 point shooting looks legit at 44% although he only shot 3 per game while some guys hoisted 4, 5, or 6. He also gets to the line at a pretty high rate (4th), and makes them at 78% which is good for a big. He really turns the ball over though, and won't help out a ton with steals and blocks, which is really what we need. He could be an interesting player for somebody if he keeps his weight in check. Weird to have a guy so great at rebounding and also good at 3 point shooting and getting assists.

A couple other guys in this list I know next to nothing about, but some things pop out. Play around with this chart and let us know what you find.