khans2k5 wrote:They're both 21 and they are both going to be monsters in this league. I'm not trading either unless I'm getting a superstar PG back. I don't care about individual rebounding stats. Are we losing games because our SF isn't get 4 more rebounds per game? No. They both need to start and play with each other and build the continuity that pays dividends down the line. There's too much focus on now because we're all disappointed in this season and want to turn it around now. That's not the right play. The right play is to keep building continuity with the big 3 and shift pieces around them when needed.
Well said. As long as our team rebounding numbers are solid I could care less whether Andrew averages 4 or 6 boards per game.
Our team rebounding unfortunately isn't good right now, but I think everyone (with the exception of Dieng) is capable of helping more on that end so I don't put it all on Wiggins. That responsibility falls on everyone and not just Wiggins.
Right, but Wiggins is obviously the worst relative to his peers at that position. Now if we had two monster rebounders up front, it wouldn't matter as much. But because everyone else is average-ish on the boards, his lack of rebounding is a problem.
I also think SG is better simply because it just makes us bigger overall, which in turn I think could help us defensively, so this is not just about his lack of rebounding.
khans2k5 wrote:They're both 21 and they are both going to be monsters in this league. I'm not trading either unless I'm getting a superstar PG back. I don't care about individual rebounding stats. Are we losing games because our SF isn't get 4 more rebounds per game? No. They both need to start and play with each other and build the continuity that pays dividends down the line. There's too much focus on now because we're all disappointed in this season and want to turn it around now. That's not the right play. The right play is to keep building continuity with the big 3 and shift pieces around them when needed.
Well said. As long as our team rebounding numbers are solid I could care less whether Andrew averages 4 or 6 boards per game.
Our team rebounding unfortunately isn't good right now, but I think everyone (with the exception of Dieng) is capable of helping more on that end so I don't put it all on Wiggins. That responsibility falls on everyone and not just Wiggins.
Right, but Wiggins is obviously the worst relative to his peers at that position. Now if we had two monster rebounders up front, it wouldn't matter as much. But because everyone else is average-ish on the boards, his lack of rebounding is a problem.
I also think SG is better simply because it just makes us bigger overall, which in turn I think could help us defensively, so this is not just about his lack of rebounding.
I was just going to post a similar thought. We do tend to focus on Andrew's anemic rebounding stats, but it's just one piece of the puzzle. We do become a much better rebounding team if someone like Belly starts and pushes Wig to SG...that upgrades our rebounding at 2 positions, because I would argue that Wig is at least an adequate rebounder for a 2. But the real value is the length it provides us. I don't know if it was as apparent on TV as it was live, but the height advantage we enjoyed over the Lakers the night Zach and Bazz were out was extraordinary...and it gave us a big advantage on both ends of the court. Wig's height clearly frustrated any 2 that he was guarding, and he was drooling all game about the advantage he held over the guys who had to guard him...the result was 47 points. And Belly's 8 rebounds were a welcome change at the 3. Now, Belly looked good defending Luol Deng...a good matchup for him. But while he is clearly quicker this year than last, the jury is still out on whether he can guard SFs every night. I'd like to give him a chance though.
khans2k5 wrote:They're both 21 and they are both going to be monsters in this league. I'm not trading either unless I'm getting a superstar PG back. I don't care about individual rebounding stats. Are we losing games because our SF isn't get 4 more rebounds per game? No. They both need to start and play with each other and build the continuity that pays dividends down the line. There's too much focus on now because we're all disappointed in this season and want to turn it around now. That's not the right play. The right play is to keep building continuity with the big 3 and shift pieces around them when needed.
Well said. As long as our team rebounding numbers are solid I could care less whether Andrew averages 4 or 6 boards per game.
Our team rebounding unfortunately isn't good right now, but I think everyone (with the exception of Dieng) is capable of helping more on that end so I don't put it all on Wiggins. That responsibility falls on everyone and not just Wiggins.
Right, but Wiggins is obviously the worst relative to his peers at that position. Now if we had two monster rebounders up front, it wouldn't matter as much. But because everyone else is average-ish on the boards, his lack of rebounding is a problem.
I also think SG is better simply because it just makes us bigger overall, which in turn I think could help us defensively, so this is not just about his lack of rebounding.
I was just going to post a similar thought. We do tend to focus on Andrew's anemic rebounding stats, but it's just one piece of the puzzle. We do become a much better rebounding team if someone like Belly starts and pushes Wig to SG...that upgrades our rebounding at 2 positions, because I would argue that Wig is at least an adequate rebounder for a 2. But the real value is the length it provides us. I don't know if it was as apparent on TV as it was live, but the height advantage we enjoyed over the Lakers the night Zach and Bazz were out was extraordinary...and it gave us a big advantage on both ends of the court. Wig's height clearly frustrated any 2 that he was guarding, and he was drooling all game about the advantage he held over the guys who had to guard him...the result was 47 points. And Belly's 8 rebounds were a welcome change at the 3. Now, Belly looked good defending Luol Deng...a good matchup for him. But while he is clearly quicker this year than last, the jury is still out on whether he can guard SFs every night. I'd like to give him a chance though.
I was talking sports at work yesterday and made the comment "people get caught up in one game". I've been guilty of it plenty but Belly playing well in one game where it was a good matchup isn't exactly enough for me.
To me the hyper focusing on the wing rebounding is kinda odd. It looks like to me the Wolves are at worst middle of the road as a rebounding team right now based on some stats which...have some use. Where is the complaining about other players that aren't PGs being somewhat underwhelming as rebounders? Towns is averaging just under 10 rebounds per 36 minutes Dieng is just over 9. That's not stellar although it's not bad. The bench PFs on this team rebound like big SFs. Aldrich has the best rebound rate on the team. Why is it just Wiggins and Lavine that get ripped for below the bar poor rebounding?
My take is to keep both wiggins and lavine and start them both. They are too talented to consider trading to make room for the other. On offense, their skills compliment each other well. They just bith need to step up their defense and rebounding to acceptable levels.
Wiggins needs to flat out go after rebounds. He is currently a terrible rebounder, no excuses there. If avery bradley can average 8rpg in his 6th season after career 3rpg, then there is hope for wig to grab 5-5.5 rpg somewhere down the line.
Both needs to step up their d. Both have the make up fir being a lockdown defender, they need to work in it.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I thought Wig looked terrific in the first half last night, especially the first quarter. He shot well, made plays for others and was fully engaged on defense. Then for some reason he spent most of the 3rd quarter standing in the corner while KAT, Zach, and Gorgui played pick'n roll. By the time he tried to re-engage in the game his shot was off and his motor completely disappeared. When he checks out, he just flat out quits on defense. He's becoming something of an enigma, the fact he can be two completely different players from game to game, or even within the same game.
I still think he has the highest ceiling of all of our players. But I'm starting to wonder what the chances are of him reaching it. But I firmly believe our development as a team depends on the player he becomes. We've seen how good it can be, but the next few months are critical for him.
He took 5 shots in the 3rd, the most of any quarter. He missed all but one. He was just cold. He had similar pattern vs Suns: hot start, shit the rest of the game.
worldK wrote:My take is to keep both wiggins and lavine and start them both. They are too talented to consider trading to make room for the other. On offense, their skills compliment each other well. They just bith need to step up their defense and rebounding to acceptable levels.
Wiggins needs to flat out go after rebounds. He is currently a terrible rebounder, no excuses there. If avery bradley can average 8rpg in his 6th season after career 3rpg, then there is hope for wig to grab 5-5.5 rpg somewhere down the line.
Both needs to step up their d. Both have the make up fir being a lockdown defender, they need to work in it.
While I don't disagree that they should both start for now and we need to keep our powder dry, it's their very talent which is what makes them valuable trade assets. Both are scorers first and foremost that don't do much else to help the team win. If we continue down the path of underachievement this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them shopped this summer.
Well, I sure hope not, Q, because I believe that since Andrew Wiggins is a former No. 1 overall pick and the key piece to the Kevin Love trade, members of the front office probably view him as an untouchable piece whereas Zach LaVine is more likely viewed as just a former lottery pick who has nice upside. For me, LaVine is just as untouchable or valuable -- if not more -- than Wiggins.
worldK wrote:My take is to keep both wiggins and lavine and start them both. They are too talented to consider trading to make room for the other. On offense, their skills compliment each other well. They just bith need to step up their defense and rebounding to acceptable levels.
Wiggins needs to flat out go after rebounds. He is currently a terrible rebounder, no excuses there. If avery bradley can average 8rpg in his 6th season after career 3rpg, then there is hope for wig to grab 5-5.5 rpg somewhere down the line.
Both needs to step up their d. Both have the make up fir being a lockdown defender, they need to work in it.
While I don't disagree that they should both start for now and we need to keep our powder dry, it's their very talent which is what makes them valuable trade assets. Both are scorers first and foremost that don't do much else to help the team win. If we continue down the path of underachievement this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them shopped this summer.
Can't we have nice things? :)
Ok let's say Thibs decides One of these scorers is more Rudy Gay or...OJ Mayo types? You deal them for the best offer you can get. Personally I don't think either guy is gonna end up being a volume scorer that doesn't really help you win type but I can see that angle. The thing is even at the end of this season they will have finished up their 3rd season and be 22. In 3 more seasons they will be 25. What they are doing offensively is pretty special. It's unlikely thier trade value will decrease. I listened to Thibs talk after practice today and it sounds like defensively the whole team has a long way to be doing the things that makes Thibs such a good defensive coach. It sounds like they are doing pretty basic things on that end and obviously they haven't exactly mastered those things yet but it gives me hope for the future on that end not just for the team but for individual players.
Personally I don't see the need to trade Wiggins or Lavine for another piece. If Thibs and Layden can't find a couple stronger front court players without making any type of move they suck at their jobs. The team has 3 PGs on the roster right now that have plenty of talent. They may need to make a decision on that group but I don't see the need to bolster that position by dealing Lavine or Wiggins.
Stay the course I'm always reminded of the baby Bulls that actually had a pretty nice group of players. They traded them away trying to get better both with vet guys and adding exciting young draft picks.
Monster, I wish I shared the same optimism with our point guard group, but I'm just not as sure about it as I was perhaps a year ago. Rubio playing very poorly likely has a lot to do with that. I also have less faith in Dunn than others here. More importantly, I'm growing impatient with our point guard play overall.
Also, the more I watch this offense centered around LaVine and Wiggins as primary ball-handlers, it makes me believe that our point guard should be a good player without the ball, which is why Dragic came to mind since we've seen him play with other high usage backcourt mates in Phoenix. I know he's already over 30-years old, but I think there's still plenty of good basketball left in him. And his veteran savvy would be great on a team full of young guys who haven't won yet.
