Ricky is Awesome

[thedoper]

Thanks Mikkeman I won't remember any of that.

[Monster]

I want to make some comments on Rubio defensively.

Before last year I think Rubio's defense was polarizing. Some announcers from other teams would dog on him saying he can't play D. Some Rubio fans would say he was terrific. I thought he was somewhat in the middle being better than a Corey Brewer type a disruptive player that gets out of position but Rubio was better overall than Brewer partly because he isn't as physicallly disadvantaged. Last year Rubio was more disciplined overall and generally speaking was pretty damn good on that end espcially considering who he was playing with as the season went on.

This year he hasn't been as good and has for the most part been back to what he was before. Why? First of all he started the season last year playing with 2 defensive vets in KG and Prince so discipline was more rewarded. If you did your job you had players that had your back and did their job too. Towns was doing well there also playing well defensively early with those guys. So Rubio started off with something to be a part of. He has been a guy for a few years that knows to ICE guys forcing them to where the defense is supposed to help and sometimes that's why he has looked bad is he forced a guy one way and there was no help looking like he just got blown by which wasn't exactly the case. This year he is playing with a bunch of guys that haven't done their job with maybe Dieng being the only guy doing it with any real consistency at least from the start. Rubio hasn't been as solid and I can see why to some extent because other players aren't doing their jobs. I'm not giving Rubio a pass though because there are things he isn't doing that he should be doing I'm just mentioning a bit of a reality though.

Rubio has nice length at the position defensively but he doesn't have the athletic ability to make up for being beat and guarding PGs you are going to get beat regardless. Rubio has been too easy to play against when it comes to screens. He also hasn't been as disruptive consistently which is a big part of him being an actual asset as a defender. There are too many times when he ends up doing nothing when the Wolves need him to get to another player at least. He looks less obvious that Towns does when he is on no man's land but Rubio has had plenty of those type possessions. I think he can be more disciplined and disruptive defensively on a more consistant basis as the season goes on. It's on him but as other guys do their job it's going to help him do his as well. I'm about 3/4ths of the way through the Houston game and there are some pretty good signs in that game although there have been some breakdowns but Houston is a pretty good offensive team.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Mikkeman--Ricky is a -22 on the entire year which is about a -.5 or -.6 on average. The team is a -1.1 on the year. So given Ricky's minutes, he's faring average to slightly above average on this team. The net rating you quote is not as useful a number as it has many quirks. On RPM and Win Shares Ricky is doing well.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Mikkeman, Basketball reference says Ricky has an Offensive Rating of 116 per 100 possessions and a Defensive rating of 110 in 100 possessions. That is a positive 6 per 100 possessions from Basketball-reference.com That is a good stat for Ricky and doesn't gibe with the number you quoted. I'm not seeing any concerns out of the advanced stats with Ricky other than instead of stellar advanced stats like we are accustomed to seeing they are pretty neutral but trending up.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

On the other hand Wiggins has an offensive Ratng of 105 and a DRating of 114. That's a -9 difference over 100 possessions. Not good for Wiggins.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

On the other hand Wiggins has an offensive Ratng of 105 and a DRating of 114. That's a -9 difference over 100 possessions. Not good for Wiggins.

TeamRicky, I'm not sure you have read or understood a single thing anyone has had to say about that b-ball reference stat you keep quoting. Or may be you have, but you have chosen to ignore it since it fits the narrative you are trying to spin.

(And I'm a fellow Ricky fan by the way!)

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

On the other hand Wiggins has an offensive Ratng of 105 and a DRating of 114. That's a -9 difference over 100 possessions. Not good for Wiggins.

TeamRicky, I'm not sure you have read or understood a single thing anyone has had to say about that b-ball reference stat you keep quoting. Or may be you have, but you have chosen to ignore it since it fits the narrative you are trying to spin.

(And I'm a fellow Ricky fan by the way!)

Q, I am not spinning anything. I am being the investigative reporter here, after there was a smear job on Ricky. I went thru every single box score Ricky has played in this year and did the math myself and have his true plus minus which wasn't nearly as positive as I hoped but it wasn't terrible either. He's now -22 which over the season is -.5 to -.6 per game and better than the team's overall number. I put more stock in plus minus stats as they are less susceptible to manipulation and its clear how they are calculated. I haven't seen the formula for Net Rating that Mikkeman quotes but if a guy is a 0 plus minus his NetRating should tend to be neutral too, barring distortions. Because people could define a possession differently, it leads to distortion. An example of a distortion in a Net Rating would be if your team grabs a rebound at end of quarter with little time it hurts your ORating as that possession is considered a fail and these kinds of things make it less useful than pure plus/minus stats which are straightforward calculations. I'm not sure after going through this all this trouble, why you want to slam me. I have a math, stats background and used to be an actuary, so I'll put up my ability to understand stats up to anyone else on this thread. I am frustrated by the willingness of people to just slam and pile on the Ricky Hate Train without even understanding what the stats mean and now its my fault. To quote Cam, Oh Brother!!!

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Ricky ranks 3rd overall in WinShares (behind KAT and Gorgui)
Ricky ranks 3rd overall in Real Plus Minus (behind KAT and Gorgui)

RPM is readily available on the ESPN site and its meets the eyeball test. You read the names at the top of the list year by year and they include the best two way players in the game. When someone posts another advanced stat, I want to do an eyeball test to see if it meets it. If you want to throw out a stat and not give the formula, I want to at least take it for a test drive and see if it meets the eyeball test. Is that too much to ask? If you guys want to use NBA.Com NetRating over RPM, WinShares and Box Score Plus Minus (which all paint Ricky in a neutral or positive light), provide me a link to a sortable list of all NBA players so I can test drive it. It would be nice if someone can post the formula for that stat too, so I can understand how much distortion is in this number.

[Duke13]

TeamRicky, you are quite the investigative. reporter alright, wow!!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

On the other hand Wiggins has an offensive Ratng of 105 and a DRating of 114. That's a -9 difference over 100 possessions. Not good for Wiggins.

TeamRicky, I'm not sure you have read or understood a single thing anyone has had to say about that b-ball reference stat you keep quoting. Or may be you have, but you have chosen to ignore it since it fits the narrative you are trying to spin.

(And I'm a fellow Ricky fan by the way!)

Q, I am not spinning anything. I am being the investigative reporter here, after there was a smear job on Ricky. I went thru every single box score Ricky has played in this year and did the math myself and have his true plus minus which wasn't nearly as positive as I hoped but it wasn't terrible either. He's now -22 which over the season is -.5 to -.6 per game and better than the team's overall number. I put more stock in plus minus stats as they are less susceptible to manipulation and its clear how they are calculated. I haven't seen the formula for Net Rating that Mikkeman quotes but if a guy is a 0 plus minus his NetRating should tend to be neutral too, barring distortions. Because people could define a possession differently, it leads to distortion. An example of a distortion in a Net Rating would be if your team grabs a rebound at end of quarter with little time it hurts your ORating as that possession is considered a fail and these kinds of things make it less useful than pure plus/minus stats which are straightforward calculations. I'm not sure after going through this all this trouble, why you want to slam me. I have a math, stats background and used to be an actuary, so I'll put up my ability to understand stats up to anyone else on this thread. I am frustrated by the willingness of people to just slam and pile on the Ricky Hate Train without even understanding what the stats mean and now its my fault. To quote Cam, Oh Brother!!!

Ricky, I appreciate all the work you've done here to defend your guy. The reason why using box score +/- can also be misleading is that it doesn't account for pace of play. So for example, if two players in two separate games each are a +5 in 30 minutes of play, but one game played at a faster pace than the other with more possessions, the guy with the +5 in the slower paced game did better (relatively speaking).

That's why per 100 possessions are used in the NBA.com Ortg and Drtg stats, because it normalizes for pace of play. Yes, there are some quirks in how a possession is defined and then applied to the player in question, but I find this method to be the most accurate when it comes to measuring plus-minus.

All of that being said, I won't argue with your "preponderance of evidence" methodology. I take the same view - look at multiple advanced stats combined with the eye test and draw a conclusion from the aggregate picture it takes. However, there is still room for subjectivity, bias, and mystery! Therefore there is always room for differing opinions.