The third option would have been to flip him and his perceived potential to a rebuilding team needing to sell hope to a fan base in exchange for their All-Star talent...
I know, I know, I really need to stop bringing it up, but the Wiggins v. LaVine debate will live on for a very long time I believe. I also think, based on reporting from Jon K and Wolfson, that Chicago would have traded Butler for Wiggins and whatever salary filler might have been needed.
So the fact that Wiggins and filler straight up for Butler gets the deal done, but Zach had to be paired with Dunn and a top 10 pick doesn't tell you anything? I really liked Zach too, but he's a glorified version of Jamal Crawford.
Camden0916 wrote:Just out of curiosity, if you were Thibs and and could acquire Paul George at the trade deadline -- or before -- with some sort of promise to re-sign in Minnesota for four-years, $131.6M... and the price was Andrew Wiggins... would you make it happen?
Better player, better fit, volume 3P shooting need, better defender, more proven... Unfortunately he's 27, but the idea would be to go all in with this kind of move.
Why would George re-sign? Jimmy Butler, for starters. Everyone loved him on Team USA from what I've read. George constantly worked out with Karl-Anthony Towns this past summer so perhaps there's a good relationship there. And shit, I think that threesome would compete with anybody's in the West.
Maybe in NBA 2K this happens, but what are your thoughts?
If he's guaranteed to re-sign here yes. But that's never going to happen so it's not much of a debate. He's gonna keep his options open and that's already too much for me to take the chance given the heavy LA talk.
I'm on board trading Wiggins for a proven star like the potential Kyrie deal, but I need at least a full year under contract after this year to even think about it. If you are looking for an obvious immediate improvement deal getting DJ for Dieng, Aldrich and either Patton or the pick is a much safer route to getting better without giving up a lot for a great fit. At least in that scenario if you lose the rental you really don't lose a lot because you are basically swapping Dieng's horrible deal for a pick or Patton who's unproven. If you lose Wiggins and George that really kills the long-term and short term future of the franchise.
Q12543 wrote:Cam, The answer is hell yeah, but that assumes everything you mentioned with the assurances to re-sign, etc. Of course we really don't know if he would have done that.
Once we moved all those assets to get Butler, I felt like we immediately leaped from "re-building with youth" to "win now" mode. If we could have swapped out Wiggins for George, knowing he'd re-sign with us, you'd have to make that move.
It is weird how OKC hasn't been able to put it together. They have the #2 rated defense in the NBA and George is playing pretty damn well for them. I have to believe they eventually get into the playoff picture. And that's somewhat of a good thing for us since it means we would get their draft pick this offseason!
Paul George...kinda scares me a bit (kinda acts a bit strange at times) but yeah you would have to look into that.
Q here are some interesting stats for OKC. The last 10 games they are sitting at 6th in the NBA in Defensive rating right above...interestingly the Mavs. During that time OKC is dead last in offensive rating with the Bulls right above them. Thats right the Bulls are ranked 1 spot better than OKC. Thats kinda insane. I think most of us would agree eventually OKC will figure things out but...its taking quite a while. Over that 10 game span the Wolves D isn't good but the offense is 3rd overall in the NBA. Unless they have a major injury I just don't see OKC not making the playoffs. Hopefully they don't end up figuring it out and then we have to face them. Regardless that draft pick is looking a lot more interesting than it did when the season started.
Edit:
Cam's idea of trading Wiggins for Paul George is an illustration of how Wiggins likely is going to be an asset going forward and if it doesn't work out you can likely deal him to a franchise that has to give up a star that isn't working out for them.
The third option would have been to flip him and his perceived potential to a rebuilding team needing to sell hope to a fan base in exchange for their All-Star talent...
I know, I know, I really need to stop bringing it up, but the Wiggins v. LaVine debate will live on for a very long time I believe. I also think, based on reporting from Jon K and Wolfson, that Chicago would have traded Butler for Wiggins and whatever salary filler might have been needed.
So the fact that Wiggins and filler straight up for Butler gets the deal done, but Zach had to be paired with Dunn and a top 10 pick doesn't tell you anything? I really liked Zach too, but he's a glorified version of Jamal Crawford.
I'm afraid that Wiggins is a glorified Darko.
Then there isn't much help for you here because Darko was straight trash and comparing Wiggins to him is an atrocity. Wiggins already has more win shares in 272 games (11.2) than Darko had in his career over 468 games (7.1).
Q12543 wrote:Cam, The answer is hell yeah, but that assumes everything you mentioned with the assurances to re-sign, etc. Of course we really don't know if he would have done that.
Once we moved all those assets to get Butler, I felt like we immediately leaped from "re-building with youth" to "win now" mode. If we could have swapped out Wiggins for George, knowing he'd re-sign with us, you'd have to make that move.
It is weird how OKC hasn't been able to put it together. They have the #2 rated defense in the NBA and George is playing pretty damn well for them. I have to believe they eventually get into the playoff picture. And that's somewhat of a good thing for us since it means we would get their draft pick this offseason!
Paul George...kinda scares me a bit (kinda acts a bit strange at times) but yeah you would have to look into that.
Q here are some interesting stats for OKC. The last 10 games they are sitting at 6th in the NBA in Defensive rating right above...interestingly the Mavs. During that time OKC is dead last in offensive rating with the Bulls right above them. Thats right the Bulls are ranked 1 spot better than OKC. Thats kinda insane. I think most of us would agree eventually OKC will figure things out but...its taking quite a while. Over that 10 game span the Wolves D isn't good but the offense is 3rd overall in the NBA. Unless they have a major injury I just don't see OKC not making the playoffs. Hopefully they don't end up figuring it out and then we have to face them. Regardless that draft pick is looking a lot more interesting than it did when the season started.
Edit:
Cam's idea of trading Wiggins for Paul George is an illustration of how Wiggins likely is going to be an asset going forward and if it doesn't work out you can likely deal him to a franchise that has to give up a star that isn't working out for them.
Monster, that depends on Wiggins' performance. If he continues to stagnate, as he has so far this season, then the whole "young player with potential" luster will continue to wear off. In hindsight, the most value he has had to date was on draft day. Ever since, his value has slowly been going down. That will only accelerate under his new contract if he continues to flatline.
As for OKC, their playoff positioning is a mixed picture for us. If they DON'T make the playoffs, we don't get their draft pick. If they DO make the playoffs, we might be the ones they face - or worse - bump out of the playoff race. So one part of me wants them to really suck and another part of me wants them to eke into the playoffs.
The third option would have been to flip him and his perceived potential to a rebuilding team needing to sell hope to a fan base in exchange for their All-Star talent...
I know, I know, I really need to stop bringing it up, but the Wiggins v. LaVine debate will live on for a very long time I believe. I also think, based on reporting from Jon K and Wolfson, that Chicago would have traded Butler for Wiggins and whatever salary filler might have been needed.
So the fact that Wiggins and filler straight up for Butler gets the deal done, but Zach had to be paired with Dunn and a top 10 pick doesn't tell you anything? I really liked Zach too, but he's a glorified version of Jamal Crawford.
I'm afraid that Wiggins is a glorified Darko.
Then there isn't much help for you here because Darko was straight trash and comparing Wiggins to him is an atrocity. Wiggins already has more win shares in 272 games (11.2) than Darko had in his career over 468 games (7.1).
Yeah, comparing him to Darko is a bit extreme. I still say Rudy Gay and Jeff Green are fair game though!
The third option would have been to flip him and his perceived potential to a rebuilding team needing to sell hope to a fan base in exchange for their All-Star talent...
I know, I know, I really need to stop bringing it up, but the Wiggins v. LaVine debate will live on for a very long time I believe. I also think, based on reporting from Jon K and Wolfson, that Chicago would have traded Butler for Wiggins and whatever salary filler might have been needed.
So the fact that Wiggins and filler straight up for Butler gets the deal done, but Zach had to be paired with Dunn and a top 10 pick doesn't tell you anything? I really liked Zach too, but he's a glorified version of Jamal Crawford.
I'm afraid that Wiggins is a glorified Darko.
Then there isn't much help for you here because Darko was straight trash and comparing Wiggins to him is an atrocity. Wiggins already has more win shares in 272 games (11.2) than Darko had in his career over 468 games (7.1).
Yeah, comparing him to Darko is a bit extreme. I still say Rudy Gay and Jeff Green are fair game though!
Comparing their results is a real stretch, but comparing their nonchalant on court attitudes is pretty accurate. Neither appeared to give a damn when they were in the middle of a terrible game. It would be a whole lot easier to cheer for Wig if he only appeared to care half as much as us schmuck fans.
We will have a long time to trade Wiggins to Toronto. It is going to be almost exactly like the Carmelo situation where everyone knows this would be his potential destination and Toronto will contradict logic to bring their native son home if the situation arises. I honestly don't think his performance will change this situation too much. Unless he really does become useless, which I don't personally think is going to happen.
Comparing their results is a real stretch, but comparing their nonchalant on court attitudes is pretty accurate. Neither appeared to give a damn when they were in the middle of a terrible game. It would be a whole lot easier to cheer for Wig if he only appeared to care half as much as us schmuck fans.
I'm glad that someone here understands my point... Wiggins has all of the tools but most games absolutely does not give a f**k.
