Minnesota Sports Forum

Wolves fans, we're only happy when we're miserable, am I right?

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Two respectable wins in a row and we're back to talking about Wiggins ups and downs. It could be worse. We could still have Lavine on the team. :) Cheer up Wolves fans. I'd hate to see you all once we're in the playoffs.

Personally, I think it's a non-issue. Towns, Butler, and Thibs all seem to be in Wiggins' corner. Those are the three most important figures in the organization. I also don't see how Wiggins could logically feel the way the report says. He leads the team in shot attempts, he's basically been given free reign to play how he wants, and until recently, he hasn't been asked to guard the opponent's best wing. Things were made to be easier for him and a lighter workload on his shoulders this season.

I agree with this.

Wiggins leading the team in shots really doesn't mean anything. No doubt he takes more shots per touch than anyone else, but his teammates constantly encourage him to attack the rim when he gets it. What does mean something is his involvement in the offense. If you watch the game analytically at all (instead of looking at the box score afterward and making your judgements based on it), it's easy to see he's not involved in a vast majority of the offensive sets. So it's reasonable to deduce that most of his shots don't come from the natural flow of the offense. In other words he creates almost all of the shots he takes. Taking this further, he doesn't get a lot of gimmes. Where he can kill other teams is catching the ball in the paint or on the block and going to work. But they just don't run much of that action for him. If I was a coach (I am by the way), i would look to play more to his strengths instead of giving him the ball 25 feet from the basket and asking him to create something. No wonder his shooting percentages and free throw attempts are down this year. And yes, I think he reason to question the way he is being deployed, or non-deployed,

This year, 55.5% of Wiggins' FG's are assisted and 44.5% are unassisted -- unassisted meaning that he's creating on his own.

Last year, 46.4% of his FG's were assisted and 53.6% were unassisted.

So, sorry, Cool, but I don't buy your theory that Wiggins is having to create more offense for himself this year. I just can't agree with that. It doesn't fit what I see on a nightly basis and I actually think he's played a better team-oriented game this season, which is a positive for him.

He's as involved as he wants to be most nights, and he's the third scoring option in the game plan because he just can't hold a candle to Butler and Towns despite getting his shots up more frequently than either of those two. That's not Thibs' fault.

Camden0916 wrote:This year, 55.5% of Wiggins' FG's are assisted and 44.5% are unassisted -- unassisted meaning that he's creating on his own.

Last year, 46.4% of his FG's were assisted and 53.6% were unassisted.

So, sorry, Cool, but I don't buy your theory that Wiggins is having to create more offense for himself this year. I just can't agree with that. It doesn't fit what I see on a nightly basis and I actually think he's played a better team-oriented game this season, which is a positive for him.

He's as involved as he wants to be most nights, and he's the third scoring option in the game plan because he just can't hold a candle to Butler and Towns despite getting his shots up more frequently than either of those two. That's not Thibs' fault.

Those are some interesting numbers I think a lot of people would have assumed they were the opposite.

Regardless I could absolutely see reasons Wiggins feels frustrated but nothing much further than that. He has had to sacrifice at times this year no doubt and what was reported was he worked hard on his jumper because he knew he would be a complimentary piece. After a hot start that didn't go well. Other parts have t either and he can't hit his FTs. There is absolutely reason to be frustrated with his game and I bet he has frustration with it as well. Is it an issue? I doubt it. After starting to get on a roll I think it was that Portland game these guys seem to really have some good chemistry with each other.

Camden wrote:This year, 55.5% of Wiggins' FG's are assisted and 44.5% are unassisted -- unassisted meaning that he's creating on his own.

Last year, 46.4% of his FG's were assisted and 53.6% were unassisted.

So, sorry, Cool, but I don't buy your theory that Wiggins is having to create more offense for himself this year. I just can't agree with that. It doesn't fit what I see on a nightly basis and I actually think he's played a better team-oriented game this season, which is a positive for him.

He's as involved as he wants to be most nights, and he's the third scoring option in the game plan because he just can't hold a candle to Butler and Towns despite getting his shots up more frequently than either of those two. That's not Thibs' fault.

Surprising numbers to be sure. I can't explain those because they sure don't match my eye test. They are especally surprising since Rubio isn't feeding him anymore. I don't remember him standing in the corner last year while the rest played a 3 or 4 man game. But that's what he does most nights now, especially when Jimmy is playing. You seem to be saying that's by his choice, and that's where we have a major disagreement. It looks to be completely by scheme to me. I'm not going to take the time, but maybe you will: See what his shots/minute look like when Jimmy is off the floor vs on. He seems to get a lot of his shots in the few minutes they don't play together.

I think those numbers make sense.

last year, wiggs was the one guy that didnt get a boost from rubio. It was basically give him the ball and let him go at it for better or worse. So, he didnt really get assisted alot.

This year, he is often in the corner while jimmy and teague play with the ball (by design because you see this when teague or crawford are off ball). So more baskets are off of cuts or wiggs launching from 3's off a pass because he doesnt get to go into attack mode off the dribble all that often anymore. And when he does go, its off of broken plays or when the paint is packed. Id imagine his efficiency and ppp off isos have looked much better with jimmy off and bjelly on due to spacing issues and just being more involved in the offense (eye test, not sure of actual numbers).

Right now, he looks to be a little more comfortable passing out of the post and playing off of kat more than he has had at any other time in his career + plus his defense doesnt look half bad.

I just dont trust thibs to have the creativity to have an offense that can utilize KAT, Butler, Wiggs, and Teague at the same time.

Camden wrote:This year, 55.5% of Wiggins' FG's are assisted and 44.5% are unassisted -- unassisted meaning that he's creating on his own.

Last year, 46.4% of his FG's were assisted and 53.6% were unassisted.

So, sorry, Cool, but I don't buy your theory that Wiggins is having to create more offense for himself this year. I just can't agree with that. It doesn't fit what I see on a nightly basis and I actually think he's played a better team-oriented game this season, which is a positive for him.

He's as involved as he wants to be most nights, and he's the third scoring option in the game plan because he just can't hold a candle to Butler and Towns despite getting his shots up more frequently than either of those two. That's not Thibs' fault.

One more note... the Wolves couldn't even figure out how to get KAT 10 shots many nights... and he's MUCH MUCH more efficient than Wiggins.

So I wouldn't be surprised that Wiggins isn't getting the ball that much on the block. Get KAT his touches there... and then we'll see about getting Wiggins more touches there next.

If we all just try to set aside our differences over Wiggins (which clearly aren't going away), let's ask ourselves what would best help the team going forward offensively.

First, the most important thing is to keep getting KAT more involved in the offense, specifically more shots. He's just so much more efficient than Wiggins (and everybody) that even before talking about Wiggins' role, we're got to address this huge issue. We're obviously trying to feed him more in the post, but that doesn't always work because he doesn't always get the best position. We should keep doing that, but also try to use Taj and G to set picks for him to free him up a bit down low. We also should start running more offense through KAT out of the elbows where he can try to score or pass . . . which can help lead us back to Wiggins.

I'm glad Wiggins is getting more shots, including from 3, based off assists. I'd like to see that number even higher because, and even his biggest supporters have to admit this, his handles and (to a somewhat lesser degree) his passing are not strengths. Because of that, and because we need somebody to spread the floor, to some degree, it makes sense for him to spot up from 3 a good amount. It's not ideal because his shot there is not great (Teague and Belly make more sense there), but for the reasons listed above, it makes sense for Wiggins to do that too. Besides, Wiggins should challenge himself to become a better 3 point shooter. It would be a huge benefit to this team and to Wiggins personally, if he can get better with that shot.

But I do think I'd like to see Wiggins get more involved on cuts to the basket in which the passer is looking to pass him the ball so Wiggins doesn't have to initiate the drive with the ball. I don't like Wiggins putting the ball on the deck from the perimeter because of his handles and his propensity to pull up for long 2s (his passing is getting better, but mostly from the post), but attacking the basket to score is definitely a strength for him and something I'd like to see more of from him. We should be running designed picks and stuff to spring him toward the basket while the ball handler is tasked with trying to find him on the cut. Now, in exchange, that dude has GOT to work on his FTs. There's just no excuse for not working on that every single day. That would be the easiest way for him to boost both his points and efficiency, and thus, our points and efficiency.

Like him or not, he's our player and we have to find ways that help him as a player and help us as a team.

Still, the biggest issue is still the defense. I feel like we spend 80% of our posts addressing the offense and the Wiggins debate, but that's really only about 20% of the concern. The concern should be 80% on our defense right now.

Drew- Most teams seem to be doubling KAT in the post too, so we need Wiggins to be hitting the open 3 to make teams pay for it. As we know he is a poor 3 point shooter. He has the ability to hit it, he just isn't.

I agree though, we need to get KAT more shots because he is the best offensive player on the team, including Butler.