Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:In Wiggins defense, what have we actually played for. His first season we were obviously tanking and he was our number 1 option at 19. we were tanking most of last season as well until Sam decided he needed to win to keep his job. I'll reserve judgment on his drive until after this season when we are likely actively trying to win and are actually in the playoff hunt.

Mmmm, may be I need to be more precise, as I think overall Wiggins is driven to be a great ball player and puts in the work.

It's more of an in-game thing to me. He just doesn't instinctively kick it into high gear often enough for my taste.

I think that's unfair. We have seen him take over games, and he is always going to the rim, drawing fouls etc. he's not LeBron, he's not going to carry our team every game. I used to feel the same way as you, but I've decided that was mostly based on his personality type. He's not a trash talker, big ego guy. He's a cool hand Luke. The guy has ice water in his veins. if given the opportunity to close a game, I think he is willing and ready yo be the man at 22 years old. Maybe we should focus on our overall team producing those opportunities. Looking at you Rubio, LaVine, Dieng, Shabazz, Dunn. Towns and Wiggins are ready right now.

https://hoopshabit.com/2016/04/06/andrew-wiggins-blossoming-star/

http://davidsonsportsanalytics.com/professional/analyticially-comparing-andrew-wiggins/

TheFuture wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:In Wiggins defense, what have we actually played for. His first season we were obviously tanking and he was our number 1 option at 19. we were tanking most of last season as well until Sam decided he needed to win to keep his job. I'll reserve judgment on his drive until after this season when we are likely actively trying to win and are actually in the playoff hunt.

Mmmm, may be I need to be more precise, as I think overall Wiggins is driven to be a great ball player and puts in the work.

It's more of an in-game thing to me. He just doesn't instinctively kick it into high gear often enough for my taste.

I think that's unfair. We have seen him take over games, and he is always going to the rim, drawing fouls etc. he's not LeBron, he's not going to carry our team every game. I used to feel the same way as you, but I've decided that was mostly based on his personality type. He's not a trash talker, big ego guy. He's a cool hand Luke. The guy has ice water in his veins. if given the opportunity to close a game, I think he is willing and ready yo be the man at 22 years old. Maybe we should focus on our overall team producing those opportunities. Looking at you Rubio, LaVine, Dieng, Shabazz, Dunn. Towns and Wiggins are ready right now.

You still aren't getting what I'm saying. I don't want him to be a trash talker. I agree that how demonstrative one is while playing (yelling and screaming after making a big play, for example) has nothing to do with one's motor or ability to be a clutch player.

But most people that have observed him play game in and game out over the course of the past two years must admit that at times he gives up on plays or doesn't kick into full gear. That doesn't make him a bad player or non-clutch, but I do think it holds him back to a degree. His rebounding rate is probably the most tangible evidence of this, but I've seen it too in the non-measurable areas like winning 50/50 balls and taking charges.

As for Towns and Wiggins being "ready" right now versus everyone else, I'm not sure what you mean by that. We only won 29 games last year with these two guys playing a major role. So if you think all they need to do is replicate what they did last year, I disagree. Both need to keep improving along with most everyone else on the roster.

I don't think you are evaluating Wiggins fairly. I think you mistake him being passive with the ease at which the game comes to him and with how he makes star plays look routine. Are you taking into account that Wiggins has been counted on to guard harden, James, Durant, Klay, etc. night in and night out since he has been 19. Hell, he has even been placed on the westbrooks of the world. Even so, Wiggins has progressed into a 20ppg scorer. All of this while under coaches that have not been on Thibs level, both in success and player/team development, and on teams that have had the overall talent level to garner a #1 and a #5 pick. He also played every game for those seasons and competed every night. No complaints from him so far, and he's still hitting the gym hard as proven with videos posted this offseason. I have never believed Wiggins to be the #1 on a team, but the guy is a damn good number 2 to Towns or even #3 to LaVine as well. He has improved every step of the way, and there is no reason to think that stops here. 21ppg 3reb,2.5 assists on 48/41 shooting after the break is extremely good for any nba player, so why should we expect him not to be around 20/4/3 next season with improvements all around in himself, his team, and his organization. Sure, he could get 1-2 more rebounds a game, but are we really nitpicking to that extent. He never showed the innate ability to be that triple double threat player anyway, regardless of natural gifts, so how is it fair to question this innate motor ability? The sky is still the limit for Wiggins at 22. Let's begin to appreciate that he is already a good player and enjoy the ride to what he becomes.

I envision close game situations where we have a go to the rim guy and hope to draw a foul in Wiggins, a post up clincher in Towns, and a perimeter guy in LaVine who can get a shot off whenever or wherever he wants. I'm super excited and not worried one bit about them taking the next step.

To make a long post shorter. Questioning his in game drive is bs. 20ppg and competing/being guarded by the best nba wings every night is no easy task at 19-21. Yet he did it every night. Sure, some plays were taken off, but we can say that for any NBA player. I've never once thought he didn't leave it all on the court. Play styles differ. To expect a guy to play an entire game like they are guarding James harden in the last minute of a close game is ridiculous. Maybe you see him go to another level at those points and wonder where that was the whole game. My thought is that those are the precise moments that stars shine and are born. I'll enjoy that few have that in them and one is on my team.

TheFuture wrote:To make a long post shorter. Questioning his in game drive is bs. 20ppg and competing/being guarded by the best nba wings every night is no easy task at 19-21. Yet he did it every night. Sure, some plays were taken off, but we can say that for any NBA player. I've never once thought he didn't leave it all on the court. Play styles differ. To expect a guy to play an entire game like they are guarding James harden in the last minute of a close game is ridiculous. Maybe you see him go to another level at those points and wonder where that was the whole game. My thought is that those are the precise moments that stars shine and are born. I'll enjoy that few have that in them and one is on my team.

I appreciate your spirited defense of Wiggins. I also appreciate all the good things he does and his potential for the future. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the whole motor issue. I've watched all but probably three or four of his games over the past two years and it's what I've observed.

fair enough. Hopefully we can revisit this next offseason after Wiggins has narrowed the scope!

Q12543 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:To make a long post shorter. Questioning his in game drive is bs. 20ppg and competing/being guarded by the best nba wings every night is no easy task at 19-21. Yet he did it every night. Sure, some plays were taken off, but we can say that for any NBA player. I've never once thought he didn't leave it all on the court. Play styles differ. To expect a guy to play an entire game like they are guarding James harden in the last minute of a close game is ridiculous. Maybe you see him go to another level at those points and wonder where that was the whole game. My thought is that those are the precise moments that stars shine and are born. I'll enjoy that few have that in them and one is on my team.

I appreciate your spirited defense of Wiggins. I also appreciate all the good things he does and his potential for the future. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the whole motor issue. I've watched all but probably three or four of his games over the past two years and it's what I've observed.

Britt Robson seems to think Wig is just calculated and it's not a motor issue. Almost sounds like Ray Allen.

Man if Wigs can get the footwork and the shot to fall on step backs with his long strides...wow. Lots of ifs but fun to see him work on it.

https://twitter.com/thedailywolf/status/759029174413697025

I want him to locate, and release his inner junkyard dog! I want him to play angry, as if every team in the NBA outside Minnesota disrespected him, multiple times, publically... and stole his girlfriends, all of them. If he does that he'd be in the conversation for who is the best player in the league.

Based on what I've heard, KG agrees with Future. And my observations align with Q's. In fact, I remember Milt Newton's radio interview last year when he hinted at Wiggins' motor issues. Milt gave an account of an incident in practice where Flip became extremely frustrated by Wiggins lack of effort.

I acknowledge it could be a style issue and not a motor issue, but I don't think so. I think next season is pivotal for Wiggins in that regard. Thibs won't settle for less than all-out high intensity effort every minute on both ends. Whether Wiggins has KG chirping in his ear or not, he'll have high expectations placed on him by the coaching staff for hustle, defense and rebounding and not just scoring. I think Wiggins is ready to make the jump as evidenced by his decision to skip international play this summer. He seems serious about taking it to the next level. Imagine Wiggins with the motor of Gorgui Dieng. Pretty fricking exciting!