Tom Thibodeau...let's discusss

[kekgeek]

LST, you are one of my favorite posters on here. But relax, I am disappointed also but we lost 2 road games. I see you were complaining in the game thread about not using timeouts during there runs but we are using them. We have had a grand total of 3 TO left with 2 minutes to go in the game with both games combined.

I think his rotations have been fine, we had one of our young guns in the game at all times besides a 2:30 stretch in the early 2nd quarter I believe.

I mean is it thibs fault that wiggins misses to late FTS same as Dunn. Is it Thibs fault KAT misses a wide open 3 late. Wiggins decides to pull up on the jumper instead of attacking. Then gorgui rushes a put back instead of gathering himself and making the bucket.

Now if we are like this 40 games in we might have a problem. But I think it is more of the in my opinion unrealistic expectations of 50 wins what would be a historical jump for a team that won 28 games last year with no injuries and no major player adds.

Just for reference:

Pop: 0-2
Stevens: 0-2
Rivers: 1-1
Carlisle: 1-1
Best coaches in their first games with their teams

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good stuff, kek, and thanks for the info about time out usage. I have had no problems with Thibs' rotations in the first two games (with the great depth I think we have, there aren't too many lineups I wont like), and although I was yelling at the TV for a time out a couple times, I don't find that to be a big issue either. My issue is primarily about mid-game adjustments, which is where I think a coach earns his salary. The opposing coaches made some adjustments at halftime (or more so in the second quarter in the first game), and Thibs and his staff weren't able to make the necessary adjustments to stop the bleeding. Sure, 2 games is not a trend, and no conclusions can be reached. But isn't blowing 18 point leads in the first 2 games of the season at least a topic worthy of discussion? I think it is.

But don't worry...I am relaxed. I really think we should have beaten a beat-up Memphis team, but Sac-town looks improved to me, and there's no shame in losing to them on the road.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Outside of small stretches last season Belly played poorly, and unless my memory really sucks I don't recall Wiggins having ice in his veins in final shot situations in his first two seasons. Thibs frowns cannot be blamed for changing these players into exactly what they already were, but if we were a quarter way through the season it would be fair to question why he hasn't helped them develop.

I don't disagree about Belly, although I actually thought Wig did seem to be fairly strong late in games last year. But by the way, although I think Sam was better at encouraging his players than Thibs (although not as competent as Thibs in x's and o's), I don't think he excelled in this area either...and especially wasn't helpful in developing Belly.

My comment on Wiggins wasn't about late 4th quarter performance, but like last night, final shot to tie/win a game performance. He's always seemed hesitant in that situation, but like last night he's very capable of being the player to key a late game comeback. He simply hasn't looked confident to me when taking the final shot.

what makes it worse is that the team keeps force feeding him into being the guy to take those shots when it might not be best suited for him. Towns might be better there. LaVine might be better there (and should have taken the shot last night), but it's as if we're trying to turn Wiggins into Kobe late in games when it might be detrimental to him and everyone else.

Yeah I was really wanting to see Towns or LaVine take that shot. Wiggins is not reliable shooting from outside. I trust KAT, LaVine and Dieng to make an outside shot before Wiggins. Andrew's bread and butter is driving to the hole and shooting free throws and ocassionally outside shots to keep the defense honest.

[TheFuture]

I'm not ready to make a link between Belly's poor play and Wig's clutch time failures in the first two games and Thibs' critical nature, but I am going to put it out there as a potential concern.

Outside of small stretches last season Belly played poorly, and unless my memory really sucks I don't recall Wiggins having ice in his veins in final shot situations in his first two seasons. Thibs frowns cannot be blamed for changing these players into exactly what they already were, but if we were a quarter way through the season it would be fair to question why he hasn't helped them develop.

I don't disagree about Belly, although I actually thought Wig did seem to be fairly strong late in games last year. But by the way, although I think Sam was better at encouraging his players than Thibs (although not as competent as Thibs in x's and o's), I don't think he excelled in this area either...and especially wasn't helpful in developing Belly.

My comment on Wiggins wasn't about late 4th quarter performance, but like last night, final shot to tie/win a game performance. He's always seemed hesitant in that situation, but like last night he's very capable of being the player to key a late game comeback. He simply hasn't looked confident to me when taking the final shot.

what makes it worse is that the team keeps force feeding him into being the guy to take those shots when it might not be best suited for him. Towns might be better there. LaVine might be better there (and should have taken the shot last night), but it's as if we're trying to turn Wiggins into Kobe late in games when it might be detrimental to him and everyone else.

Yeah I was really wanting to see Towns or LaVine take that shot. Wiggins is not reliable shooting from outside. I trust KAT, LaVine and Dieng to make an outside shot before Wiggins. Andrew's bread and butter is driving to the hole and shooting free throws and ocassionally outside shots to keep the defense honest.

I have to believe the plan was for Wiggins to attack and Towns to roll to the hoop/crash. An outside shot has to be LaVine right now.

Wiggins was feeling it and tried to do the Jordan/Kobe thing. I don't blame him.


Young pups. Less than 10 years nba experience combined on the floor there.

[Porckchop]

Well I waited 4 pages to give someone else a chance to point out that are starting pg hasn't helped matters either. But I guess it has to be me again. Close games and your pg scores 4 and 5 pts? Do the math, if he had put forth even modest numbers they win both games. He's not the only reason for the losses but I would argue he's one of the main ones.

[TheFuture]

Well I waited 4 pages to give someone else a chance to point out that are starting pg hasn't helped matters either. But I guess it has to be me again. Close games and your pg scores 4 and 5 pts? Do the math, if he had put forth even modest numbers they win both games. He's not the only reason for the losses but I would argue he's one of the main ones.

Our pgs were abused by Memphis' pgs so I'll give you that, but not against the kings. Lawson didn't exactly light it up. We got destroyed inside by cousins and gay in the 2nd half, every player was getting and 1s, and Barnes/McLemore got hot from outside. The 3rd quarter we forgot was being played is what killed us. No one but LaVine or Wiggins were a real threat to score in the 2nd half. I'd put more blame on KAT and our Bench than on our PGs.

[Coolbreeze44]

I get that Wiggins probably isn't the guy you want taking a last second jump shot with the game on the line. But don't tell me that he isn't clutch. From the day he got here he has been our best scorer down the stretch of games, especially when we are coming from behind. He has made big buckets for us time and time again during the last few minutes of games. Far more than anybody else. It would have been better if he attacked the basket at the end last night, but he's still the guy I trust more than anyone else to get us points in that situation.

[Monster]

2 games in and we are worried about coaching? This team started 2-0 last year. Yawn I'll start to be more worried when I have a larger chunk of games to base my opinion on.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, you are one of my favorite posters on here. But relax, I am disappointed also but we lost 2 road games. I see you were complaining in the game thread about not using timeouts during there runs but we are using them. We have had a grand total of 3 TO left with 2 minutes to go in the game with both games combined.

I think his rotations have been fine, we had one of our young guns in the game at all times besides a 2:30 stretch in the early 2nd quarter I believe.

I mean is it thibs fault that wiggins misses to late FTS same as Dunn. Is it Thibs fault KAT misses a wide open 3 late. Wiggins decides to pull up on the jumper instead of attacking. Then gorgui rushes a put back instead of gathering himself and making the bucket.

Now if we are like this 40 games in we might have a problem. But I think it is more of the in my opinion unrealistic expectations of 50 wins what would be a historical jump for a team that won 28 games last year with no injuries and no major player adds.

Just for reference:

Pop: 0-2
Stevens: 0-2
Rivers: 1-1
Carlisle: 1-1
Best coaches in their first games with their teams

Good points.

The other thing I'll add is that Sacramento won 33 games last year with a washed up head coach that clashed with its superstar, who also happened to miss nearly 20 games. Now one of the coaches many of us would have liked nearly as much as Thibs is in charge. While these guys aren't going to be contending for a title anytime soon, they are a very competitive team.

We have to remember that the Western Conference is a beast. You can't take any quarters off, as we found out in both losses.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Well I waited 4 pages to give someone else a chance to point out that are starting pg hasn't helped matters either. But I guess it has to be me again. Close games and your pg scores 4 and 5 pts? Do the math, if he had put forth even modest numbers they win both games. He's not the only reason for the losses but I would argue he's one of the main ones.

What does it matter, as long as the team can generate offense? And by the way, Rubio didn't even play for the majority of the 4th quarter last night.

Once you start watching the actual games, you'll see that this team is built around Towns and the wings. Those are the guys that are going to get the vast majority of shots and opportunities. Dunn's job late in the game yesterday was to play tough defense, bring the ball up, and then get out of the way. Heck, he wasn't even bringing the ball up sometimes. They would just give it to Wiggins and clear out.

Ultimately this team is going to live or die by KAT and Wiggins late in games on the offensive end.