longstrangetrip wrote:While I'm probably on my way to going at least half porkchop (if going porkchop means Ricky cant stay healthy, not Ricky isn't any good), I'm scratching my head at the idea that we need another PG. Here are the latest PG PER rankings:
The Wolves have three point guards currently in the top 17 PGs...no team other than the Suns have more than 1 in the top 20! Yesterday Ricky was out again, but our other 2 PGs lined up against one of the top 3 PGs in the league and put up 29 and 11 with only 4 TOs...LA's 2 PGs only had 24 and 9 with 4 TOs. So our PGs outperformed their PGs, but we're still saying PG is a big need for this team? We're so deep there that a first round draft pick can't see the court, even with one of our PGs on the injured list. This team certainly has needs, but PG is not one of them...we're set there.
I posted in the GDT yesterday a comment about how Zach and Miller played when they are out there together, and I hope you guys were watching closely (if not, go back and watch those five minutes of the 4th quarter). Zach is the PG, even when paired with Andre...he takes the ball up court, starts the offense, and has the ball in his hands most of the time. Zach wants and needs the ball in his hands. I think he has the potential to be a very good SG too, but watching how he wants the ball in his hands, it's clear to me that his mentality is more PG than SG.
And I'm hoping we can stop the "Collison is a better backup PG than Zach" talk. Take a look at their comparative numbers, and it's easy to see that Zach is the far better performing PG, even though he's lined up against starters half the time while Collison plays generally against reserves.
This is from before the last game:
@SethPartnow
Dead horse: Wolves are -6.8/48 with LaVine at PG. There are + 30.3/48 with LaVine at SG.
I don't care about Zach's individual stats. I care how the team plays when he's on the court and it is painfully obvious that Zach playing PG is a problem for everyone around him even if it's not a problem for him. But keep spouting the individual stats like they make him a real PG. This league is about more than what you can do individually. The best players always are known for what they do to elevate their teammates and Zach doesn't do that at PG. Ricky does which is why he's a better PG by far even though Zach outscores him, outshoots him and is a more efficient player.
Yeah, I really agree with Khan's take on Martin. His issue is that he's not making shots...period. The past three seasons he has been our best shooter, and I always felt confident when he released one of those ugly shots. But he is missing wide open looks this year. He is 11-42 on threes to date, and I honestly can't remember any that were forced...all open looks. I'm willing to give him more rope because we could really use the Martin from last year providing scoring off the bench. I just don't want him starting out games.
longstrangetrip wrote:While I'm probably on my way to going at least half porkchop (if going porkchop means Ricky cant stay healthy, not Ricky isn't any good), I'm scratching my head at the idea that we need another PG. Here are the latest PG PER rankings:
The Wolves have three point guards currently in the top 17 PGs...no team other than the Suns have more than 1 in the top 20! Yesterday Ricky was out again, but our other 2 PGs lined up against one of the top 3 PGs in the league and put up 29 and 11 with only 4 TOs...LA's 2 PGs only had 24 and 9 with 4 TOs. So our PGs outperformed their PGs, but we're still saying PG is a big need for this team? We're so deep there that a first round draft pick can't see the court, even with one of our PGs on the injured list. This team certainly has needs, but PG is not one of them...we're set there.
I posted in the GDT yesterday a comment about how Zach and Miller played when they are out there together, and I hope you guys were watching closely (if not, go back and watch those five minutes of the 4th quarter). Zach is the PG, even when paired with Andre...he takes the ball up court, starts the offense, and has the ball in his hands most of the time. Zach wants and needs the ball in his hands. I think he has the potential to be a very good SG too, but watching how he wants the ball in his hands, it's clear to me that his mentality is more PG than SG.
And I'm hoping we can stop the "Collison is a better backup PG than Zach" talk. Take a look at their comparative numbers, and it's easy to see that Zach is the far better performing PG, even though he's lined up against starters half the time while Collison plays generally against reserves.
This is from before the last game:
@SethPartnow
Dead horse: Wolves are -6.8/48 with LaVine at PG. There are + 30.3/48 with LaVine at SG.
I don't care about Zach's individual stats. I care how the team plays when he's on the court and it is painfully obvious that Zach playing PG is a problem for everyone around him even if it's not a problem for him. But keep spouting the individual stats like they make him a real PG. This league is about more than what you can do individually. The best players always are known for what they do to elevate their teammates and Zach doesn't do that at PG. Ricky does which is why he's a better PG by far even though Zach outscores him, outshoots him and is a more efficient player.
I'll simplify it even more:
I love basketball. The flow. The movement. The passing. Cutting. Shooting. It's a beautiful game...
... that looks a lot uglier with LaVine playing PG.
[Note: Count me in the LaVine could be better than expected camp at this point though... as a scoring guard first off the bench or possibly even next to a playmaking PG. I definitely want to see him out there more with Rubio to see him in that 2-guard role more.]
You know that LaVine is improving when those of us that hate(d) him at PG start using aesthetics as the reason for why he shouldn't play that position!
I agree with Abe's take though. The fact it's even becoming a debate is a good thing.
I absolutely agree Martin is just missing shots no doubt. I do think with a better offensive flow he finds more spots and becomes more of a factor to guard. He isn't making those cuts to get open like he has in the past because...I am not sure that's really part of the offense right now. Contrast that with Redick from yesterday. It's significant. Matti may not be quite that type of mover off the ball (Redick was like Diggs coming out of his break getting open) but that's been a big part of his game as a wolf. Hopefully some of that can return regardless of whether he starts or not.
Q12543 wrote:You know that LaVine is improving when those of us that hate(d) him at PG start using aesthetics as the reason for why he shouldn't play that position!
I agree with Abe's take though. The fact it's even becoming a debate is a good thing.
Yeah it is pretty amazing. Lol
Here is another consideration of why Zach MAY have a shot at being a legit starting PG. If teams have to guard him it can open the floor for others. One reason why elite players at PG position were so good was they were also a legit threat to score. Zach is probably more of a Gilbert Arenas type than say Steve Nash (I'm not getting carried away just trying to make a point) but if Zach can score all over the floor he will be able to draw guys and make plays and he has shown ability to do that at times even his rookie year IN FLASHES here and there. At this point he is showing more consistency of being a very good scorer and I think all of us hoped for that and he is putting together performances that are more than encouraging in that regard. It doesn't hurt that he is a lengthy PG so he will be able to see over guys that other PGs won't be able to do. Of course there are times like yesterday guys are wide open and he doesn't see them like when Towns was yelling and going crazy because he was wide open yesterday. Lol
I like that Zach seems to be unselfish enough to actually try and play the PG spot. He seems very coachable. I see him communicating to guys out there. It's not like he is just getting the ball and saying get the hell out of the way and I am gonna score and the. If it doesn't work out be ready cause I'll try and dump the ball to you to bail me out. It looks obvious he actually wants to be a guy that runs a team. For some guys that are really SGs in PG bodies running the point I am not sure that's always the case.
AP tweeting extensively today that Kander made the decisions to hold Rubio out and that Kander thinks Rubio is one of the toughest players he has worked with. We gave this guy some clout for a reason, I am cool with the long term approach and am going to reserve judgement on Rubio's health and ability to contribute to this team until the all-star break. I am not going any pork yet, though I respect the pessimist position on this issue.
Here are the AP tweets Doper is referring to (read from bottom to top):
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 47m47 minutes ago
Kander also says Pekovic is about 2 weeks away from starting to practice on a limited basis. Encouraged that he's feeling no pain in ankle
4 retweets 10 likes
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 48m48 minutes ago
Kander says it was his call for Rubio not to play last 2 games, not Ricky's. Said Ricky was very upset at not playing
7 retweets 10 likes
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 49m49 minutes ago
Wolves sports science guru Arnie Kander says Rubio is one of the 10 toughest players he's worked w/in 25 years in league
10 retweets 15 likes
Two takeaways:
1) Rubio is not soft or a wussy as some here have claimed. This is further proof of that being a bunch of B.S. You can lament the fragility of his body, but not the competitor inside of it.
2) Pekovic won't be ready by mid-December as LST so optimistically predicted, BUT the fact that he continues to progress pain-free is a very good sign. I'm still not holding my breath.
Q12543 wrote:Here are the AP tweets Doper is referring to (read from bottom to top):
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 47m47 minutes ago
Kander also says Pekovic is about 2 weeks away from starting to practice on a limited basis. Encouraged that he's feeling no pain in ankle
4 retweets 10 likes
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 48m48 minutes ago
Kander says it was his call for Rubio not to play last 2 games, not Ricky's. Said Ricky was very upset at not playing
7 retweets 10 likes
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 49m49 minutes ago
Wolves sports science guru Arnie Kander says Rubio is one of the 10 toughest players he's worked w/in 25 years in league
10 retweets 15 likes
Two takeaways:
1) Rubio is not soft or a wussy as some here have claimed. This is further proof of that being a bunch of B.S. You can lament the fragility of his body, but not the competitor inside of it.
2) Pekovic won't be ready by mid-December as LST so optimistically predicted, BUT the fact that he continues to progress pain-free is a very good sign. I'm still not holding my breath.
Not claiming Rubio is a wuss. Or that Kander isn't being brutally honest.
But if I was an astute PR guy and the team's highest priced player was sitting out games again for what seemed like "minor" issues... leaking a story to the press about the player being tougher than what people might think wouldn't be the dumbest idea.
Q12543 wrote:Here are the AP tweets Doper is referring to (read from bottom to top):
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 47m47 minutes ago
Kander also says Pekovic is about 2 weeks away from starting to practice on a limited basis. Encouraged that he's feeling no pain in ankle
4 retweets 10 likes
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 48m48 minutes ago
Kander says it was his call for Rubio not to play last 2 games, not Ricky's. Said Ricky was very upset at not playing
7 retweets 10 likes
Jon Krawczynski ?@APkrawczynski 49m49 minutes ago
Wolves sports science guru Arnie Kander says Rubio is one of the 10 toughest players he's worked w/in 25 years in league
10 retweets 15 likes
Two takeaways:
1) Rubio is not soft or a wussy as some here have claimed. This is further proof of that being a bunch of B.S. You can lament the fragility of his body, but not the competitor inside of it.
2) Pekovic won't be ready by mid-December as LST so optimistically predicted, BUT the fact that he continues to progress pain-free is a very good sign. I'm still not holding my breath.
Not claiming Rubio is a wuss. Or that Kander isn't being brutally honest.
But if I was an astute PR guy and the team's highest priced player was sitting out games again for what seemed like "minor" issues... leaking a story to the press about the player being tougher than what people might think wouldn't be the dumbest idea.
Yeah and if Rubio actually is so tough AND he still hasn't played a decent chunk of games this year isn't that a worry also? Overall these tweets are probably positive and I do think Kander is legit which helps.
