Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:I hear what you're saying, mikkeman, but I'm throwing out the games Ricky played in after he returned from injury. Let's face it...when Ricky returned, the Wolves were already out of the playoffs and Flip had his mind on the lottery. I still maintain that we only saw the real Wolves in those first four games, when we were healthy and actually playing for something...and any team that plays two nailbiters with Memphis (on their court) and Chicago, while beating Brooklyn on their court and Detroit at home, clearly looked like a borderline playoff team. There's not a sufficient sample size so this is only my opinion, but the fact that our numbers when reasonably healthy were close to OkC and NO (2 borderline playoff teams) supports my assertion that a healthy Wolves team was a borderline playoff team.

But LST, no team will stay 100% healthy. Even the healthiest of teams end up losing key guys for some short to moderate stretches. Yes, if Pek, Martin, and Rubio had all played 78+ games, may be we could have competed for a playoff spot. May be.

Oh, and guess who our starting PF was in those first four games you cling to for hope?

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I hear what you're saying, mikkeman, but I'm throwing out the games Ricky played in after he returned from injury. Let's face it...when Ricky returned, the Wolves were already out of the playoffs and Flip had his mind on the lottery. I still maintain that we only saw the real Wolves in those first four games, when we were healthy and actually playing for something...and any team that plays two nailbiters with Memphis (on their court) and Chicago, while beating Brooklyn on their court and Detroit at home, clearly looked like a borderline playoff team. There's not a sufficient sample size so this is only my opinion, but the fact that our numbers when reasonably healthy were close to OkC and NO (2 borderline playoff teams) supports my assertion that a healthy Wolves team was a borderline playoff team.

But LST, no team will stay 100% healthy. Even the healthiest of teams end up losing key guys for some short to moderate stretches. Yes, if Pek, Martin, and Rubio had all played 78+ games, may be we could have competed for a playoff spot. May be.

Oh, and guess who our starting PF was in those first four games you cling to for hope?

I agree that no team will stay 100% healthy, q...my "borderline playoff team" assertion was based on an assumption of "reasonable" injuries. The Wolves were healthy in that first Memphis game, and so were the Grizzlies, and we played them even. "Reasonable" injuries means that both Memphis and the Wolves experience similar dropoff in performance from injuries as the season progresses...hence it's logical to conclude that we would still be playing at their level later in the season. I understand that the Wolves' injury history has not in any way been "reasonable" in the past 5 seasons, but I don't believe that is sufficient evidence to conclude that will be our norm forever...if so, I need to find another team to follow.

Pre-grieving Thad Young was our PF in those first 4 games, and although he rebounded poorly in 3 of the 4 games, the Wolves' superb team rebounding covered for him...and Thad's scoring was instrumental in our good play those first four games. Unfortunately, Thad's level of play dropped off considerably after his 2 weeks of grievance leave, and he wasn't a good contributor until the couple weeks before we traded him.

a healthy Wolves team this year is still the worst interior defense in the league, has barely any shooters, and still the same bad coach. Also everybody doesn't want to acknowledge that Wiggins did not have a good chemistry with either Rubio or Martin

This trade is still an incomplete imo because we don't know what we are getting out of KG both on the floor and otherwise and we don't know the $ the team will have to pay. Let's be honest though if KG plays 60 games at 20mpg and signs for 5 million a year that's easily worthwhile for that money. He is still a top notch defender and gives you some rebounding and obviously knows how to play the game. He is going to help the team while he is out there you don't always get a player that can do that for that kind of money.

The other big key is this team this franchise needs a vet leader. Since KG left what vet leaders have been on the team? I'd say Brian Cardinal was one but their hasn't been much there. We need a vet that can do some leading because there has not been a guy in that role and it's one reason this franchise has problems. I know KG can have his issues but considering the lack of vet leadership of this franchise I'll take the chance that he does more good than harm.

In the end this could look like a solid trade and the returns don't have to be that amazing out of KG production wise. I'm not looking at KG through homer glasses with this post just being serious. Adding him via this trade could have a pretty worthwhile impact. There are a lot of questions though and I fully realize that but there are real reasons to expect or hope for optimistic impact from KG on the roster.

alexftbl8181 wrote:a healthy Wolves team this year is still the worst interior defense in the league, has barely any shooters, and still the same bad coach. Also everybody doesn't want to acknowledge that Wiggins did not have a good chemistry with either Rubio or Martin

Martin & Wiggins' chemistry doesn't matter much if Martin won't be here much. Rubio was hurt most of the year so it's hard to develop any chemistry. We didn't see much of Rubio during the run that Wiggins was at his best. Next year will be telling.

Wiggins like a lot of young players isn't very good moving without the ball. With Ricky primarily setting up people who move without the ball and Martin being a shoot first, pass second mentality it makes sense that Wiggins didn't look great next to them. If you put Bud next to Ricky and Martin it would look great offensively because Bud is really good moving off the ball. I think it is a lost skill that isn't emphasized enough. Every guard and wing needs to know how to move off the ball and not just stand around. It is something Wiggins and Lavine need to learn if they want to really take advantage of having a PG like Ricky. Otherwise Ricky will just be wasted and we'd be better off with a guy like Mudiay and just switch between Mudiay, Lavine and Wiggins for who is going to get to the bucket like the Thuder do with Westbrook and Durant and the Cavs do with Lebron and Kyrie. You either need everyone to move like the Spurs and Hawks or you need to play hero ball like the Thunder and Cavs. Those are the two most effective ways at building teams in the league right now.

The trade is complete. We know what we got from Garnett. Five games (a whopping 98 minutes of court production) and some nice speeches to the team. That's it.

You all realize he's a free agent this summer, right? Right? We understand that?

Once he re-signs (for way more than he's worth), that acquisition is now a free agent move, not some extended version of this trade.

That's what most of you continue to overlook/ignore.

Camden0916 wrote:The trade is complete. We know what we got from Garnett. Five games (a whopping 98 minutes of court production) and some nice speeches to the team. That's it.

You all realize he's a free agent this summer, right? Right? We understand that?

Once he re-signs (for way more than he's worth), that acquisition is now a free agent move, not some extended version of this trade.

That's what most of you continue to overlook/ignore.

Yeah I agree. The Young trade was a salary dump slash short term marketing scheme. I would have rather took a second round pick for Young and just signed Garnett in the offseason.

I would like Garnett around Towns or Okafor should we be fortunate enough to draft either one. It would be good for them to see the kind of work it takes to be great, if Garnett is willing to show them.

A rebuilding team should have kept the Miami pick bottom line. I don't think the Wolves would have made the playoffs with a fully healthy roster and Kevin Love. They weren't going to make the playoffs with a fully healthy roster and Young. Once Love wanted out the focus should have been selling off veteran assets and stockpiling young players and picks. Look at what the Celtics have done to turn over an aged roster of Pierce, Garnett, and Rondo. Danny Ainge is wiping his butt with first round picks. We should have done the same.

I read comments here sometimes suggesting we could have just signed KG in the offseason as a free agent. That could have been true if Young opted out of his contract, but there was no certainty he was going to do that. We have heard rumors that Thad told the Wolves he was going to leave at the end of the season, but I suspect that once his agent got a better feel for Thad's value in the open market, Thad would have been a fool to walk away from the $10 million the Wolves owed him. That would have left Flip owing $66 million on 12 players, and still needing to fill out the roster...including $6-7 million for a first round pick. I.E. no cap room to sign KG. Flip just couldn't take the chance on Thad opting in.

Camden0916 wrote:The trade is complete. We know what we got from Garnett. Five games (a whopping 98 minutes of court production) and some nice speeches to the team. That's it.

You all realize he's a free agent this summer, right? Right? We understand that?

Once he re-signs (for way more than he's worth), that acquisition is now a free agent move, not some extended version of this trade.

That's what most of you continue to overlook/ignore.

This is just dumb. Would you make the same bogus claim with the Dragic trade or are you just making it because you hate the KG trade? Getting KG and Dragic in the door was the whole reason both teams made the trades so they could be first in line to lock up the next contract which they both will. That has to be considered part of the trade because they can line up deals before both players officially become free agents while everyone else has to wait to negotiate with them. It's this little thing where you are allowed to talk to your own employees, but not other team's employees. So yes, re-signing them is part of the trade because acquiring them via trade gave their teams inherent advantages to re-sign them that other teams don't have. We didn't trade for KG just to finish out the year here just like the Heat didn't trade picks to Phoenix just to have Dragic finish the year with them. To ignore that fact is just spinning the deal your way and ignoring part of the context as to why the deals were even made in the first place.