Minnesota Sports Forum

alexftbl8181 wrote:Simply put, yes it is early to declare if he's a bust of not, but on the other hand, you would like to see something, or at least flashes of some area that you can see can he build on.

Does he show flashes of a low post game? No

does he show flashes of being a good stretch 4? No

Does he have high athleticism? No

does he have a high bball IQ? No

Does he play hard nosed defense? No

The only thing he's really shown is that he was willing to hustle. But lately he really isn't doing that, that much.

If he was 19 or 20 maybe, but the guy is 24.

Carlos Danger wrote:A year ago Payne was considered a lottery pick... so professional scouts must have seen something they liked. That doesn't go away in 25 games of garbage time. If he was playing out of his mind for the 25 games would you be reserving his spot in Hall of Fame? Probably not. You are entitled to your opinions...but I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a guy's career that fast.

Carlos Danger wrote:A year ago Payne was considered a lottery pick... so professional scouts must have seen something they liked. That doesn't go away in 25 games of garbage time. If he was playing out of his mind for the 25 games would you be reserving his spot in Hall of Fame? Probably not. You are entitled to your opinions...but I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a guy's career that fast.

thedoper wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:A year ago Payne was considered a lottery pick... so professional scouts must have seen something they liked. That doesn't go away in 25 games of garbage time. If he was playing out of his mind for the 25 games would you be reserving his spot in Hall of Fame? Probably not. You are entitled to your opinions...but I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a guy's career that fast.

Stop being so rational. This is a great post btw. The only question I ask is "has he improved since he arrived?" And he has. That is all you can hope for when you acquire a rookie over halfway through a season.

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:A year ago Payne was considered a lottery pick... so professional scouts must have seen something they liked. That doesn't go away in 25 games of garbage time. If he was playing out of his mind for the 25 games would you be reserving his spot in Hall of Fame? Probably not. You are entitled to your opinions...but I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a guy's career that fast.

Stop being so rational. This is a great post btw. The only question I ask is "has he improved since he arrived?" And he has. That is all you can hope for when you acquire a rookie over halfway through a season.

Why can't we ever expect a rookie to come in and actually look fairly competent, if not dominant, right away? We always use the excuse of "well of course he's bad, he's a rookie!".

It doesn't have to be that way. Plenty of rookies, especially older rookies, actually look fairly competent after getting their feet wet for a few games.

It's not normal for a 24 year old highly touted prospect with 4 years under the best coach in the country to look this clueless. His shot being off? Fine. His timing being off a bit? OK. But to be completely clueless and flopping around out there like a fish out of water is not normal.

We're stuck with him at this point so we all hope he improves. But there is absolutely nothing encouraging or normal about his play thus far.

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paynead01/shooting/2015/

His shooting has been trending up every month and he rebounds well. Saying there is nothing encouraging is a gross overreaction. What % of rookies (particularly bigs) come in competent by your measures? I would guess that the overwhelming majority would still be incompetent even though you claim that "plenty" are competent.

8.3 rebounds per 36 minutes. Yes. That's better than Thad Young. But is it rebounding "well"...?

His scoring is poor. His shooting is poor. We'll see next year how much improvement he makes... because I can't imagine he's going to be easy to move for value right now. Next year, at 25, he won't be one of those guys who can get by with "I just need more time to figure it out" for very long.

alexftbl8181 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:A year ago Payne was considered a lottery pick... so professional scouts must have seen something they liked. That doesn't go away in 25 games of garbage time. If he was playing out of his mind for the 25 games would you be reserving his spot in Hall of Fame? Probably not. You are entitled to your opinions...but I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a guy's career that fast.

Uh there's a lot of guys who were considered lottery picks who stunk.

8.3 rebounds per 36 minutes. Yes. That's better than Thad Young. But is it rebounding "well"...?

His scoring is poor. His shooting is poor. We'll see next year how much improvement he makes... because I can't imagine he's going to be easy to move for value right now. Next year, at 25, he won't be one of those guys who can get by with "I just need more time to figure it out" for very long.