mrhockey89 wrote:I know what you mean, but I'm not ready to say that Muhammad, Dieng, or even LaVine are "definitely" part of our core going forward. I think LaVine probably is, Muhammad may be, and I'm somewhat skeptical on Dieng being a long term core piece.
Are you not counting Bazz because of injuries? He has proven himself to be productive when given opportunities.
monster, I like Shabazz and have completely come around on him from what I thought about him coming into this league. His style certainly is working, specifically with his hard work. The reason I said I'm not ready to call him a part of the core is because I'm not convinced he's a necessary piece as part of the long-term future. I think he very well could be, but I consider a core as basically a set of players you wouldn't trade except for a no-brainer trade offer. And I'm not ready to put him into that category yet.
mrhockey89 wrote:monster, I like Shabazz and have completely come around on him from what I thought about him coming into this league. His style certainly is working, specifically with his hard work. The reason I said I'm not ready to call him a part of the core is because I'm not convinced he's a necessary piece as part of the long-term future. I think he very well could be, but I consider a core as basically a set of players you wouldn't trade except for a no-brainer trade offer. And I'm not ready to put him into that category yet.
Thanks for the reply and defining what you mean by core. I wouldn't have much interest in trading Lavine that's for sure. To me there is only one thing holding Bazz back from being a unique at least average starter or 6th man as a wing and that's health. You don't trade that type of dude unless you get something pretty good back especially when Bazz plays his butt off and is actually tough and did play through injuries earlier in the season. He might be my favorite player on the team. I just love how he brings it.
I love Bazz's competitiveness, especially on the glass, and his attack mentality. I wish he was a more willing/better passer, and was a better perimeter shooter, and a better defender. Ultimately he's still a young player and has time to improve in these. If he could add at least 1 of those 3 components to his game to be considered "good" in any of those 3 areas, then I'd be willing to call him as part of the core.
mrhockey89 wrote:I love Bazz's competitiveness, especially on the glass, and his attack mentality. I wish he was a more willing/better passer, and was a better perimeter shooter, and a better defender. Ultimately he's still a young player and has time to improve in these. If he could add at least 1 of those 3 components to his game to be considered "good" in any of those 3 areas, then I'd be willing to call him as part of the core.
Definitely not ready to put Dieng in, though.
I'm with you on Dieng like Q says he is kinda like a big man version of Corey Brewer which is a nice player but not a core type guy.
It's a small sample size and he didn't shoot a high volume but Bazz did hit nearly 40% from 3 this year. I keep posting about him because I don't think people are giving him enough credit for how well he played this year. I think if he was healthy these last 20 games there would be a lot more positive vibe about this team but he isn't so it sucks. I will also say his passing improved a lot from last year (not hard to improve from where he was. Lol) and he is a low turnover guy for someone who scores that much if you project him at 33mpg that's over 20ppg and 6 rebounds. That's pretty good. I Guess my point is the guy has actually been productive it's not just the magical potential argument he has actually done something in this league even of the sample size is small.
mrhockey89 wrote:I love Bazz's competitiveness, especially on the glass, and his attack mentality. I wish he was a more willing/better passer, and was a better perimeter shooter, and a better defender. Ultimately he's still a young player and has time to improve in these. If he could add at least 1 of those 3 components to his game to be considered "good" in any of those 3 areas, then I'd be willing to call him as part of the core.
Definitely not ready to put Dieng in, though.
I think Bazz's biggest hold up for me is his lack of handle. If he doesn't improve it, his offensive impact is boiled down to catch and shoot 3's, post ups and put backs. Unless he becomes a good defender, I don't see how you can start him with those limitations.
If he wants to take his game to another level he needs to do it off the dribble where it puts more pressure on the defense and gets him to the line more. I also mainly say that because I think he needs to tone down the offensive rebounding effort and get back on defense more. We tend to get torched in transition when he is on the floor because we have 3 guys going for the offensive board and usually a 4th guy is the guy who shot the ball really only leaving us 1 defender back on D. If he wants to muck it up when he's there from a post opportunity or cut so be it, but he can't be coming from the 3pt line to go for a low percentage board opportunity when we need guys back on defense.
mrhockey89 wrote:I love Bazz's competitiveness, especially on the glass, and his attack mentality. I wish he was a more willing/better passer, and was a better perimeter shooter, and a better defender. Ultimately he's still a young player and has time to improve in these. If he could add at least 1 of those 3 components to his game to be considered "good" in any of those 3 areas, then I'd be willing to call him as part of the core.
Definitely not ready to put Dieng in, though.
I think Bazz's biggest hold up for me is his lack of handle. If he doesn't improve it, his offensive impact is boiled down to catch and shoot 3's, post ups and put backs. Unless he becomes a good defender, I don't see how you can start him with those limitations.
If he wants to take his game to another level he needs to do it off the dribble where it puts more pressure on the defense and gets him to the line more. I also mainly say that because I think he needs to tone down the offensive rebounding effort and get back on defense more. We tend to get torched in transition when he is on the floor because we have 3 guys going for the offensive board and usually a 4th guy is the guy who shot the ball really only leaving us 1 defender back on D. If he wants to muck it up when he's there from a post opportunity or cut so be it, but he can't be coming from the 3pt line to go for a low percentage board opportunity when we need guys back on defense.
Good post although I will add that Bazz already draws fouls at a pretty good rate it would be nice if that FT% would trend up more too.
The Wolves are on pace for 65 losses... even though injuries are part of the reason for such an embarrassing record. Sorry, but I don't see many Wolves players who could make the core of a playoff team.
BUT, the Wolves have reason to think they've found their franchise guy. Wiggins has shown some real promise. He hasn't shown enough to make that a no-brainer, but the tools and promise are there. As a really really bad team... you need a guy who could be a superstar to help with the rebuild. If they end up #1 or #2 in the draft, they'll have an opportunity to draft a second "possible" franchise guy. So then you hope one of the two pans out. If both do... alright... now the team is on to something big.
Everybody else... meh. Some guys COULD play on a playoff team. Rubio and Martin might even be able to start depending on the roster of that team, but it's not guaranteed. But they won't be the reasons a team is in the playoffs. Other guys might be deep rotation guys. Others are deep bench fodder... and even some guys who should be in D league or Europe.
The Wolves are not good. They're not even close to being good. But with Wiggins and the pick coming... at least there's hope for some kind of core there. So, if Wiggins pans out and the #1 pick pans out... maybe a run in 2 years? 3 years?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Wolves are on pace for 65 losses... even though injuries are part of the reason for such an embarrassing record. Sorry, but I don't see many Wolves players who could make the core of a playoff team.
BUT, the Wolves have reason to think they've found their franchise guy. Wiggins has shown some real promise. He hasn't shown enough to make that a no-brainer, but the tools and promise are there. As a really really bad team... you need a guy who could be a superstar to help with the rebuild. If they end up #1 or #2 in the draft, they'll have an opportunity to draft a second "possible" franchise guy. So then you hope one of the two pans out. If both do... alright... now the team is on to something big.
Everybody else... meh. Some guys COULD play on a playoff team. Rubio and Martin might even be able to start depending on the roster of that team, but it's not guaranteed. But they won't be the reasons a team is in the playoffs. Other guys might be deep rotation guys. Others are deep bench fodder... and even some guys who should be in D league or Europe.
The Wolves are not good. They're not even close to being good. But with Wiggins and the pick coming... at least there's hope for some kind of core there. So, if Wiggins pans out and the #1 pick pans out... maybe a run in 2 years? 3 years?
I pretty much agree with you Wiggins is about the only reason to feel good about this team. There is some other potential but nothing to bank on. They really need to nail this pick and have a 2nd rounder or euro guy become something reasonably worthwhile to get anywhere and have at least Rubio stay healthy. Ugh man this team...WIGGINS yey yey WIGGINS!!!
The other thing is we have to hit on one of these late lotto 1sts/2nd rounders we've either drafted ourselves or traded for. I would include Payne, LaVine, Dieng, Bjelica and Shabazz in that mix, meaning we can't quite rule out that any of these guys will turn into "core pieces" yet, but it's not looking good in my opinion.
Dieng - He's getting to the age where big improvements or changes to his body can almost be ruled out. He's a nice backup C/PF on a playoff team for now - tough seeing him break through that plateau at this point.
Shabazz - As Hockey mentioned, he really needs to round out his game to be the type of wing you feel comfortable starting next to Wiggins. I actually don't think it's his handles that needs the most work, since he's obviously found a way to score effectively without them. To me it's defense and knocking down the open 3-ball. What I like about him is the way he's physically put together. He and Wiggins could present some serious match-up problems if they play together, but both of these guys have to work on their outside shot.
Payne - He's a rookie and already almost as old as Dieng! Given how clueless he looks, it's hard to fathom him locking down the starting PF spot. How can a guy that spent 4 years under Izzo appear so devoid of basketball intelligence?
LaVine - The most physically gifted of this bunch, but is similar to Payne in his decision making and feel for the game, especially in halfcourt sets (on either end of the floor). I'm also not convinced he'll put on much more weight, which could pose a problem in trying to defend NBA starting 2's.
Bjelica - He's one of the better players in Europe right now, which is impressive. He's also 27 years old, so what he is today is pretty much what he'll be in the NBA. He can do a bit of everything, but doesn't really dominate in any one area. While I think he can come over here and be a nice rotation player, I'm not sure he can hang with most starting NBA PFs defensively.
We often compliment Flip for drafting well. And it's true that it appears he's certainly done better than Kahn. But guess what? Doing better than Kahn and finding "decent rotation guys" isn't good enough. Great teams hit a couple of later picks out of the park - not all of them, but a couple. Just look up and down the rosters of the top contending teams and the vast majority of their key pieces weren't upper half lottery picks.
