I changed my mind

[Lipoli390]

I don't want Love around next season if there is barely any chance of him re-signing thereafter. And since I can't see him re-signing here given all that has transpired, I want to see him traded this summer. That's been my view for a long time.

For those who would like to see Love stay and re-sign after next season, ask yourself whether the Wolves with Love would ever be a championship contender. Will the team that finished 10th in the West last season with Love, Pek and Ricky as our core ever be knocking on the door of the NBA finals down the road with that same core. It seems obvious this team needs to improve substantially. How would the Wolves front office substantially improve the pieces around Love to take the huge stride forward the team would need to take? I have a hard time seeing the Wolves on a championship path with Love.

But again, the central point is that Love is on a one-year rental with the Wolves right now with no realistic possibility of renewal. Under these circumstances, Flip has to take one of the two reported Love deals on the table this week -- Cleveland or Chicago.

[ace [enjin:6598567]]

For those who would like to see Love stay and re-sign after next season, ask yourself whether the Wolves with Love would ever be a championship contender. Will the team that finished 10th in the West last season with Love, Pek and Ricky as our core ever be knocking on the door of the NBA finals down the road with that same core. It seems obvious this team needs to improve substantially. How would the Wolves front office substantially improve the pieces around Love to take the huge stride forward the team would need to take? I have a hard time seeing the Wolves on a championship path with Love.

We need another star. In my odds calculations that I did last night (got tired and never finished), I noticed something. Basically every team that has won a title for the past 25 years has had something in common. They all had at least two guys who made All-NBA teams, and then two more guys who were borderline All-Stars. Roster spots 5-15 can be filled in at any time in FA. As an example, the Spurs recycle benches almost yearly.

Right now we have an All-NBA player, and we have two borderline All-Stars in Ricky and Pek. We need one more big piece. Say Wiggins does something almost no one else has done and is a star immediately. Where are we at then? Still one star and two above-average starters. We still are a piece short. Pek is pretty much at his ceiling. He's going to be a dominant low post scorer and a decent man defender. That's it. His arms aren't going to grow and he won't find a vertical jump in a dumpster behind the Target Center.

That leaves Ricky and Zach. Ricky is already one of the four guys you need, but with some finishing and shooting work could become the second star. Zach has star potential, but who knows if he reaches it. The odds aren't in his favor at this point. My first post where I referenced odds was basically saying that by keeping Love we would increase our odds of reaching the 2/2 status. If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one. It is the lower odds play. At this point, though, it might be the play the team is forced to make.

[Monster]

Lip and Ace 2 very good posts. I'm one of the few that believe Love can be the #1 on a championship team and will take his game to a new level in the next couple years no matter where he plays. If its. Here. With the Wolves it will look different than if he ends up with the Cavs. If we move Love for Wiggins it might give us more pieces but like Ace said the chances are still up in the air. No matter what direction the team makes it. Still will likely need another player to become a significant contributer that. Isn't right now. If Love stays we need. Improvement from Ricky and LaVine to become at the very least a dynamite combo guard 6th man that can get his shot like a Jamal Crawford. I know that might seem like not quite high enough but I think that type of a player would be huge for the Wolves but I do think Zach can be better but even Crawford would be pretty nice especially if Zach plays better D.

Lip I agree with you that if the chances are pretty slim we may as well move Love especially if the deals are as good as Wiggins plus another young player a random first or 2 (I see now the value of some over others the Cavs have) and in the current scenario we think is happening salary space to make another move for some sort of player that can help the team at least this year. Its going to suck if we trade Love he is a fantastic player and he represented a happy time when the organization got it right for once fleeced another team in every possible way but it looks like in the end we failed beyond that move. Sigh. Of the 3 major Sports I follow Love is the 2nd best player of any team behind only AP IMO which makes losing him only more painful. It may be time to begin again and hope we can do one of those really rare deals where it really benefits both teams. Unless he really acts like a jerk when he actually leaves I don't think I'll be cheering against Love unless we are playing him. I hope he shows reasonable class on his exit. I think he will but I'm a Love homer. Lol

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one."

ace, if Love leaves without us getting Wiggins back, then we're even further from the goal that you talk about. No front office member would decline a potential star in Wiggins to roll the dice in keeping a guy who's been somewhat public about wanting to leave. That's the truth.

[Lipoli390]

"If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one."

ace, if Love leaves without us getting Wiggins back, then we're even further from the goal that you talk about. No front office member would decline a potential star in Wiggins to roll the dice in keeping a guy who's been somewhat public about wanting to leave. That's the truth.

Well said, Cam. That's the reality.

[ace [enjin:6598567]]

"If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one."

ace, if Love leaves without us getting Wiggins back, then we're even further from the goal that you talk about. No front office member would decline a potential star in Wiggins to roll the dice in keeping a guy who's been somewhat public about wanting to leave. That's the truth.

Well said, Cam. That's the reality.

Agreed, and I have acknowledged that in basically every post in this thread. Flip would be crucified if Love left for nothing. Trading Love is much lower risk than hoping he stays, but it's also more likely to put us on the 8th place treadmill.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one."

ace, if Love leaves without us getting Wiggins back, then we're even further from the goal that you talk about. No front office member would decline a potential star in Wiggins to roll the dice in keeping a guy who's been somewhat public about wanting to leave. That's the truth.

Well said, Cam. That's the reality.

Agreed, and I have acknowledged that in basically every post in this thread. Flip would be crucified if Love left for nothing. Trading Love is much lower risk than hoping he stays, but it's also more likely to put us on the 8th place treadmill.

No, keeping Love puts us on target for 6-8th seed at very best and then you'd have to sell to Love AGAIN that the team will get better in order to get him to stay.

[ace [enjin:6598567]]

"If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one."

ace, if Love leaves without us getting Wiggins back, then we're even further from the goal that you talk about. No front office member would decline a potential star in Wiggins to roll the dice in keeping a guy who's been somewhat public about wanting to leave. That's the truth.

Well said, Cam. That's the reality.

Agreed, and I have acknowledged that in basically every post in this thread. Flip would be crucified if Love left for nothing. Trading Love is much lower risk than hoping he stays, but it's also more likely to put us on the 8th place treadmill.

No, keeping Love puts us on target for 6-8th seed at very best and then you'd have to sell to Love AGAIN that the team will get better in order to get him to stay.

I'm just going to give up trying to explain what I'm saying.

[Monster]

I've been one of the strongest supporters of keeping Love on this board and I still believe its possible things are as bad as it seems however I do think Lebron in Cleveland changes the game because it makes too much sense for everyone invloved the Cavs, Love and even the Wolves.

Before the draft I wasn't convinced the Cavs would give up Wiggins plus whatever else it would take to get Love and as we have seen Flip likely knew the game could change so he was willing to wait things out. I really didn't think the Wolves would be picking a player in the draft so I didn't really look into those guys.

Now the Cavs have #1 overall pick Wiggins on the table plus at least 1 young player plus whatever else Flip wants. Even back at the draft if you told me we could/would actually get #1 plus a lot more I would have thought...you have to take a look at that depending on where they were really at with Love.

Now I think that trade makes even more sense. Wolves know what draft picks they have if they were interested in Bennett he might have more value or feel a bit better about him since he looks physically better. Flip talked about teams and him wanting more known assets and Bennet and maybe even Wiggins after SL are a little more known but Bennett moreso. Another consideration is if Flip had some ideas of further deals he can make some of those are likely much clearer now that the dust has settled after the big moves of FA. I just don't know how you can get much more of a return for Love than that package we are sort of assuming is coming right now from Cleveland. If you don't believe in Wiggins (I'm on the fence but willing to believe) then maybe the Bulls deal is alright but I might wait unless I decided I was sold on Mirotic. Basically I've almost changed my mind I say trade Love for the Cavs Wiggins++ package and let's do what is likely going to be some sort of rebuild while being sort of competitive. A lot would have to go right for the Wolves in a loaded West to make enough progress to keep Love I knew that before but I really wasn't sure we were going to get enough of a return to make the risk of losing Love or keeping him worth it. This Cavs package seems to be that type of return. I'll admit I have been stubborn wanting so badly for Love to stay and processing Lebron actually going to Cleveland (plus being really intruiged by Lebron rolling with the kids) that I hadn't really processed the deal for the Wolves plus there was so many packages along with players I didn't have a feel for their value I didn't know where I stood.

Basically I'm looking at Flip getting Wiggins, Bennett (his potential is interesting) a 1st rounder and probably some sort of vet that would end up starting in a Love package or with the cap space from the deal I'm really not sure what more you can ask for and Flip knows where he is at with Love so I leave it to him obviously (not that I have a choice lol). I wish we weren't in this position but I think this deal is a pretty good return and maybe a great one. It still sucks as I am a huge Love fan. This was a long post but oh well hopefully people don't mind its like a therapy session for me I think. :(

"I'm not crying. Its just raining on my face." Lol

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"If he leaves, we'll be terrible, but if he stays, we are one break away from becoming a serious team. Trading Love for Wiggins gives us two question marks instead of one."

ace, if Love leaves without us getting Wiggins back, then we're even further from the goal that you talk about. No front office member would decline a potential star in Wiggins to roll the dice in keeping a guy who's been somewhat public about wanting to leave. That's the truth.

Well said, Cam. That's the reality.

Agreed, and I have acknowledged that in basically every post in this thread. Flip would be crucified if Love left for nothing. Trading Love is much lower risk than hoping he stays, but it's also more likely to put us on the 8th place treadmill.

No, keeping Love puts us on target for 6-8th seed at very best and then you'd have to sell to Love AGAIN that the team will get better in order to get him to stay.

I'm just going to give up trying to explain what I'm saying.

I get your point. I'm just telling you no front office in the NBA would agree with you.