Phenom's_Revenge wrote:
And you are here to try and balance us out by taking a jab at Ricky in every thread that mentions him?
Well none of u guys ever have anything negative to say about him so yeah , balancing it out indeed!:)
There have been plenty of discussions involving negatives about Rubio. We ALL know his weaknesses so why the hell would we constantly harp about it in this situation? Situation being he's a good floor general, great passer, plus defender (disruptive one at that), good rebounder, but his shot and pure scoring ability are sub par. He's been working on the shot for the past year so all we can do is hope he gets it up around par. He does enough things very well that make him a good PG.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Somebody noted that Rose is a sieve defensively and Rubio was praised for his defense in this thread.
How important is PG defense then... considering the Bulls led the league in team defense (and never lower than 11th) and Minnesota was historically awful last season and never higher than 12th..
Well they do call it team defense for a reason right? You don't need plus defenders at specific positions, you just need the right fits. A good defensive PG takes the presser of the defense. So does a shock blocker in the paint or elite rebounding big, wing defender, etc.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Somebody noted that Rose is a sieve defensively and Rubio was praised for his defense in this thread.
How important is PG defense then... considering the Bulls led the league in team defense (and never lower than 11th) and Minnesota was historically awful last season and never higher than 12th..
Well they do call it team defense for a reason right? You don't need plus defenders at specific positions, you just need the right fits. A good defensive PG takes the presser of the defense. So does a shock blocker in the paint or elite rebounding big, wing defender, etc.
Likewise, a player can be just fine in a defensive scheme without getting the acclaim for garnering flashy steals or whatever. A team with Boozer and Rose (some people think both are sieves) was the best defensive team in the league. Rubio either... (1) plays poorly within a team defense strategy (2) has had super lousy teammates (3) shows us that the line between a good/sieve defender can be closer than we might think (4) a bit of all the above.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Somebody noted that Rose is a sieve defensively and Rubio was praised for his defense in this thread.
How important is PG defense then... considering the Bulls led the league in team defense (and never lower than 11th) and Minnesota was historically awful last season and never higher than 12th..
Well they do call it team defense for a reason right? You don't need plus defenders at specific positions, you just need the right fits. A good defensive PG takes the presser of the defense. So does a shock blocker in the paint or elite rebounding big, wing defender, etc.
Likewise, a player can be just fine in a defensive scheme without getting the acclaim for garnering flashy steals or whatever. A team with Boozer and Rose (some people think both are sieves) was the best defensive team in the league. Rubio either... (1) plays poorly within a team defense strategy (2) has had super lousy teammates (3) shows us that the line between a good/sieve defender can be closer than we might think (4) a bit of all the above.
Can u be called an elite defender when not once have u made 1st 2nd or 3rd team all defense? Elite shouldn't be thrown around so lightly. Rubio gets tagged with that word on here quite often .
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Somebody noted that Rose is a sieve defensively and Rubio was praised for his defense in this thread.
How important is PG defense then... considering the Bulls led the league in team defense (and never lower than 11th) and Minnesota was historically awful last season and never higher than 12th..
Well they do call it team defense for a reason right? You don't need plus defenders at specific positions, you just need the right fits. A good defensive PG takes the presser of the defense. So does a shock blocker in the paint or elite rebounding big, wing defender, etc.
Likewise, a player can be just fine in a defensive scheme without getting the acclaim for garnering flashy steals or whatever. A team with Boozer and Rose (some people think both are sieves) was the best defensive team in the league. Rubio either... (1) plays poorly within a team defense strategy (2) has had super lousy teammates (3) shows us that the line between a good/sieve defender can be closer than we might think (4) a bit of all the above.
Can u be called an elite defender when not once have u made 1st 2nd or 3rd team all defense? Elite shouldn't be thrown around so lightly. Rubio gets tagged with that word on here quite often .
He's only played enough games in one season to even qualify for those kind of accolades, let alone win one and there are better PG defenders out there. Nobody is saying Ricky is a top 3 defender in the league. That award goes to 3 PG's total in the league. There are more than 3 elite defending PG's in the league. He's played most of his career with Love and Pek as his help defenders in the PnR. Rose has played with the likes of Noah and Gibson. Gee, I wonder which set of bigs is better. Rose has played with Butler, Deng, Noah, Gibson, etc. Those guys are the reason they've been a top defending team in the league. Noah has been a consistent candidate for DPOY. How many of those has Ricky played with? Bigs just have a much bigger effect on a team's defensive effectiveness than guards same as guards have a bigger effect on team offense through their penetration and dishing.
Interesting discussion. Defense is a weird thing. When discussing it, I think we also have to include coaching as well. I look at the Wolves D-rating in BBall Reference and you can clearly see the three years Adleman was here the rating was much better than before or after him. Flip's Defense last year was one of my biggest disappointments. I don't know if it was the coaching, or the effort, or the injuries....but man it was painful to watch other teams always have open/high percentage shots. I sure hope they get that fixed for this upcoming season.
Regarding Rubio, I think it's fair to criticize him. He was a high pick and is being paid as a top guy. We should expect him to perform as such. That said, we also have to realize he's had some fluke injuries that have held him back. Still - he's certainly been ok when on the court. The team sure looks better with him than without him. I think Rubio probably gets more of a pass from the fans because we have a lot of other weaker links.
I'm probably one of Rubio's biggest defenders around here because of a very simple fact: When he plays, we are a dramatically better team than when he doesn't play, and that's under a variety of circumstances and lineups over a period of multiple years. It's just that simple.
Q12543 wrote:I'm probably one of Rubio's biggest defenders around here because of a very simple fact: When he plays, we are a dramatically better team than when he doesn't play, and that's under a variety of circumstances and lineups over a period of multiple years. It's just that simple.
If the team stays healthy and his numbers remain the same and the w/l numbers stay relatively the same where does he stand with you? I know it's a loaded questions but I'm curious how big of an impact you guys think he'll have on a healthy team.
Q12543 wrote:I'm probably one of Rubio's biggest defenders around here because of a very simple fact: When he plays, we are a dramatically better team than when he doesn't play, and that's under a variety of circumstances and lineups over a period of multiple years. It's just that simple.
If the team stays healthy and his numbers remain the same and the w/l numbers stay relatively the same where does he stand with you? I know it's a loaded questions but I'm curious how big of an impact you guys think he'll have on a healthy team.
I'm not sure I understand your question or hypothetical here....I'm not sure how it's possible we win only 16 games with a healthy roster. If that happened, the coach should be fired by the POBO immediately. Oh, wait....
