lipoli390 wrote:I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.
All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.
This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.
Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?
Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.
Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.
Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?
Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.
So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?
Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.
I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.
Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.
The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.
Jokic is a center that plays PG. Is he guard then? :)
When the Bucks won the title in the finals Giannis absolutely played like a big. I'd argue that's exactly why they won. I won't argue that he is also sort of a big wing but he does actually play like a big. In a similar vein KG could easily be considered a big wing too but he was absolutely a big.
I'm simply pushing back on the idea that's it's a guard league. I don't think that's unequivocally true especially when teams that win championships are good defensive teams and often that has something to do with excellent defense from big players.
Interestingly the top 3 picks in this draft were all guys 6'10" or bigger. Did those teams screw up drafting those guys in a guard league?
It's a guards/wings league. When I think of a wing versus a big on the offensive end, I think of someone who takes the ball at the top of the key and makes things happen with a combination of dribble penetration and jump shots. On the defensive end, it's a guy who defends the other team's guards and wings regardless. That's not Embiid, Gobert, Jokic or even KAT. But it's definitely Giannis as well as Luka, Butler and Tatum. And of course, it's Curry, Booker, Chris Paul, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. All of those guys can guard any position effectively on the defensive end and dominate the ball on the offensive end. KAT and Jokic are both better perimeter shooters than Giannis, but they don't do things with the ball that Giannis does or guard the perimeter the way he can.
lipoli390 wrote:I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.
All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.
This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.
Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?
Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.
Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.
Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?
Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.
So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?
Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.
I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.
Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.
The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.
Jokic is a center that plays PG. Is he guard then? :)
When the Bucks won the title in the finals Giannis absolutely played like a big. I'd argue that's exactly why they won. I won't argue that he is also sort of a big wing but he does actually play like a big. In a similar vein KG could easily be considered a big wing too but he was absolutely a big.
I'm simply pushing back on the idea that's it's a guard league. I don't think that's unequivocally true especially when teams that win championships are good defensive teams and often that has something to do with excellent defense from big players.
Interestingly the top 3 picks in this draft were all guys 6'10" or bigger. Did those teams screw up drafting those guys in a guard league?
It's a guards/wings league. When I think of a wing versus a big on the offensive end, I think of someone who takes the ball at the top of the key and makes things happen with a combination of dribble penetration and jump shots. On the defensive end, it's a guy who defends the other team's guards and wings regardless. That's not Embiid, Gobert, Jokic or even KAT. But it's definitely Giannis as well as Luka, Butler and Tatum. And of course, it's Curry, Booker, Chris Paul, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. All of those guys can guard any position effectively on the defensive end and dominate the ball on the offensive end. KAT and Jokic are both better perimeter shooters than Giannis, but they don't do things with the ball that Giannis does or guard the perimeter the way he can.
What do you consider Anthony Davis?
I'd call Anthony Davis fragile. :)
I thought you might say that and I would agree with you. :) Kawhi Leonard is no iron man either. Neither is Paul George who you mentioned. I think if all the good perimeter layers are mentioned then the really good bigs should be mentioned also.
It's also worth noting that guards and wings account for 3 positions. Bigs tend to account for 2 at most. Maybe that makes the case stronger that it's more of a perimeter player game. I think it should be recognized that it also likely means there is less positions for players to be considered top players who play positions that are bigs.
I think it's gonna be interesting to see whether Towns plays more like a perimeter player this season. In some ways he did last year on both ends and offensively it was his drive game (something most of us didn't see coming) that was like a perimeter guy. Personally With the Gobert on the roster I would love to see Towns used more like a dangerous 3 point shooter as an offensive threat. I think there is a real chance we look at Towns somewhat differently after this season is over than we do now.
It will be interesting to see how towns is used and how he plays on offense this season. We talk about his drive game but we also saw teams put wing players like batum and brooks on him in the playoffs and those guys are to defend his dribble drive game effectively and guard him better from the 3 pt line. Its a given that teams will put their 5 on gobert. Expect a smaller defender on kat and it will be interesting to see if we give him more post touches or how we exploit the size advantage he will have.
lipoli390 wrote:I think most good basketball analysts would say the Wolves have the best defensive big in Gobert and the 2nd or 3rd best offensive big in KAT. But that's not going to get the Wolves into the top 3 or 4 in the West - not in today's NBA. The three most important positions in today's NBA are the 1, 2 and 3. All three of those positions are question marks for the Wolves. We don't know what we can expect from DLO. Will he be more consistent? Will he keep the ball moving and facilitate others effectively? Will he defend decently like last season or revert to being a poor defender? We don't know what we'll get from McDaniels. So far he's been a one-way player. And while his calling card has been defense, but he hasn't shown he can defend consistently without fouling. Edwards was terrific last season and looked like he's on the road to becoming a superstar. But he's far from being a superstar yet and he's still barely 21 years old.
All of that is a long way of saying that whether the Wolves end up a top 3-4 team will depend largely on the development and play of Edwards and McDaniels. It's been said before and I'll say it again, this team will go as far as Edwards (and McDaniels in my view) can take them. If those two become the players I think they can be sooner rather than later, then combining them with Gobert and KAT should make this team a top three finisher and title contender.
This is a good post. If ant just improves a little, I'd say we're 6 or 7. If he improves a lot we'll be top 3. I think you're correct that 1,2 and 3 are the three most important positions in today's league. And yet we decided to pay super max contracts to two 5's (and yes, kat is a 5). As per usual, I think the experts are right and the homers are wrong. I hope gobert learned how to guard perimeter players this offseason because kat won't be able to. It's a perimeter league. Yeah, this trade gets us into the playoffs as a bottom 4 seed, congrats... what a stupid move by short sighted pobo.
Who are the best players in the league? What position do they play?
Are said players that you're referring to winning championships? Are they (jokic/embiid) even coming close to winning championships? Sure they're great players, but the great perimeter players are the ones having the playoff success. The wolves will just be a treadmill team that makes the playoffs every year but doesn't threaten for titles... unless Ant breaks out. But we already had that upside with or without gobert. I'm glad you all think gobert is so great, but the problem is he doesn't really change our upside at all. We needed to either use our big move for a perimeter guy like Murray or save our big move for when the right perimeter guy came available. You didn't see Milwaukee go out an add a super max center next to Giannis... no they added the perimeter guy in holiday and it worked. We should have added a couple cheaper bigs in the mold of portis and saved our big move for a perimeter guy. Why? Because it's a perimeter league AND we already have a starting center lol.
Thanks for the response. I have a couple questions and points.
Why would you say that Jokic hasn't gotten anywhere near a championship the last 2 playoffs?
Giannis is one of the best players in the league. He is a big and he won a championship. The Bucks didn't need a max center because they already had Brook Lopez. They added Jrue Hoiday because they rightly felt they needed to upgrade Eric Bledsoe. Of course you need excellent perimeter play to win a championship.
So how many guards aren't really relevant because they haven't gotten anywhere near a championship?
Exactly Monster. Lets look at recent NBA history and see who is doing well. The Lakers won a title with their 2nd best player Anthony Davis being a big. The Bucks won a title with their best player being a big in Giannis. The warriors are a little exception but Green and Looney played a key parts to the puzzle and they thought a big was neccessary also because they selected a big #2 overall instead of a wing or guard. The celtics made the finals and they started 2 bigs in Robert Williams and Horford. The Heat have made a Finals and ECF 2 of the last 3 years and their 2nd best player is Bam who is a big. Jokic made the WCF a year ago as a big, Ayton made a finals and he is a top 7 center in the NBA.
I do agree generally bigs can't be your best player to win a championship and that is why the Wolves have Ant. I don't think anyone would disagree that Ant needs to be the wolves best player to win a championship but to say they were dumb because the league doesn't win with bigs is lazy analysis in my opinion especially looking at recent history.
Again, I don't consider Giannis a big. He's a big wing. Yes, the Celtics started two bigs, but those two weren't among their top two or even their top 3 players. Ayton was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns behind guards and wings named Devin Booker and Chris Paul - and maybe Mikal Bridges. Yes, Anthony Davis was the 2nd-best player on the championship Lakers while Bam was the 2nd-best player on the Heat who made the finals last season.
The point is that none of those teams relied on bigs as their two best and highest paid players. In cases where a big was one of the top two on the team, he was the 2nd-best player. It just comes back to my point that the key for the Wolves will be Edwards - and to a lesser but important extent, McDaniels. If our starting SG were Tyler Herro instead of Anthony Edwards, the Gobert deal would have been really dumb. As Draymond Green suggested, it's Edwards that makes the Gobert deal potentially a really good one for the Wolves. If Edwards and McDaniels play up to or near their capabilities, then pairing them with both KAT and Gobert makes the Wolves a really formidable team and I believe a championship contender. Otherwise, the Wolves are a 7th seed or play-in team.
Jokic is a center that plays PG. Is he guard then? :)
When the Bucks won the title in the finals Giannis absolutely played like a big. I'd argue that's exactly why they won. I won't argue that he is also sort of a big wing but he does actually play like a big. In a similar vein KG could easily be considered a big wing too but he was absolutely a big.
I'm simply pushing back on the idea that's it's a guard league. I don't think that's unequivocally true especially when teams that win championships are good defensive teams and often that has something to do with excellent defense from big players.
Interestingly the top 3 picks in this draft were all guys 6'10" or bigger. Did those teams screw up drafting those guys in a guard league?
It's a guards/wings league. When I think of a wing versus a big on the offensive end, I think of someone who takes the ball at the top of the key and makes things happen with a combination of dribble penetration and jump shots. On the defensive end, it's a guy who defends the other team's guards and wings regardless. That's not Embiid, Gobert, Jokic or even KAT. But it's definitely Giannis as well as Luka, Butler and Tatum. And of course, it's Curry, Booker, Chris Paul, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. All of those guys can guard any position effectively on the defensive end and dominate the ball on the offensive end. KAT and Jokic are both better perimeter shooters than Giannis, but they don't do things with the ball that Giannis does or guard the perimeter the way he can.
What do you consider Anthony Davis?
I'd call Anthony Davis fragile. :)
I thought you might say that and I would agree with you. :) Kawhi Leonard is no iron man either. Neither is Paul George who you mentioned. I think if all the good perimeter layers are mentioned then the really good bigs should be mentioned also.
It's also worth noting that guards and wings account for 3 positions. Bigs tend to account for 2 at most. Maybe that makes the case stronger that it's more of a perimeter player game. I think it should be recognized that it also likely means there is less positions for players to be considered top players who play positions that are bigs.
I think it's gonna be interesting to see whether Towns plays more like a perimeter player this season. In some ways he did last year on both ends and offensively it was his drive game (something most of us didn't see coming) that was like a perimeter guy. Personally With the Gobert on the roster I would love to see Towns used more like a dangerous 3 point shooter as an offensive threat. I think there is a real chance we look at Towns somewhat differently after this season is over than we do now.
All good points, Monster.
No doubt Towns will spend a lot more time on the perimeter and be expected to take more threes. I'm not sure how his dribble-drive game, which emerged last season, will fair against quicker defenders and with Gobert's impact on spacing.
Thinking about guys who have a hard time staying on the court - Anthony Davis, Kawhi and Paul George - I like Gobert's track record of staying healthy.
worldK wrote:It will be interesting to see how towns is used and how he plays on offense this season. We talk about his drive game but we also saw teams put wing players like batum and brooks on him in the playoffs and those guys are to defend his dribble drive game effectively and guard him better from the 3 pt line. Its a given that teams will put their 5 on gobert. Expect a smaller defender on kat and it will be interesting to see if we give him more post touches or how we exploit the size advantage he will have.
KAT has been in this situation more than people may remember over the years. He spent quite a bit of time playing next to Dieng for stretches. Taj was treated more like a Center on offense. Vando was treated like a Center on offense. So KAT is no stranger to being more of a PF offensively and being guarded by a variety of shapes and sizes. That will be no different this year.
I'm not sure post-ups will be very profitable for KAT, even if guarded by smaller guys. I think where Gobert and KAT can really exploit their size advantage is on the offensive glass.
I think most of us would agree that Ant probably has to be our best player to win a title, regardless if Gobert was on the team or not. But adding Gobert into the mix along with KAT means that may be Ant doesn't need to reach LeBron/Curry/Giannis MVP-level heights in order to make us a contender. May be getting to a Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker level is good enough to at least give us a good shot at making a Finals appearance.
Like I've said before, Gobert significantly raises the floor of this team. Utah consistently won around 50 games per year with him as their best player. Yes, he had a perimeter co-star too, first it was a healthy Gordon Hayward and then Donovan Mitchell, but neither of those guys were/are MVP-caliber players and then behind them it was mostly a bunch of good role players.
Q-was-here wrote:I think most of us would agree that Ant probably has to be our best player to win a title, regardless if Gobert was on the team or not. But adding Gobert into the mix along with KAT means that may be Ant doesn't need to reach LeBron/Curry/Giannis MVP-level heights in order to make us a contender. May be getting to a Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker level is good enough to at least give us a good shot at making a Finals appearance.
Like I've said before, Gobert significantly raises the floor of this team. Utah consistently won around 50 games per year with him as their best player. Yes, he had a perimeter co-star too, first it was a healthy Gordon Hayward and then Donovan Mitchell, but neither of those guys were/are MVP-caliber players and then behind them it was mostly a bunch of good role players.
If Ant becomes our best player...that means better than KAT and Rudy, who are elite at their positions...we are clearly a title contender. But I think Rudy will be our best player this year with a very solid supporting cast, and we will be a top 4 team in the west. KAT and Ant are going to score a lot of points, but Rudy's DPOY defense, elite rebounding and efficient 15.6 PPG makes him a top 10 NBA player in my estimation. If Ant joins him as a top 10 player in the next couple years and KAT continues to play at the level he is at, this team will be truly something special.
Q-was-here wrote:I think most of us would agree that Ant probably has to be our best player to win a title, regardless if Gobert was on the team or not. But adding Gobert into the mix along with KAT means that may be Ant doesn't need to reach LeBron/Curry/Giannis MVP-level heights in order to make us a contender. May be getting to a Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker level is good enough to at least give us a good shot at making a Finals appearance.
Like I've said before, Gobert significantly raises the floor of this team. Utah consistently won around 50 games per year with him as their best player. Yes, he had a perimeter co-star too, first it was a healthy Gordon Hayward and then Donovan Mitchell, but neither of those guys were/are MVP-caliber players and then behind them it was mostly a bunch of good role players.
If Ant becomes our best player...that means better than KAT and Rudy, who are elite at their positions...we are clearly a title contender. But I think Rudy will be our best player this year with a very solid supporting cast, and we will be a top 4 team in the west. KAT and Ant are going to score a lot of points, but Rudy's DPOY defense, elite rebounding and efficient 15.6 PPG makes him a top 10 NBA player in my estimation. If Ant joins him as a top 10 player in the next couple years and KAT continues to play at the level he is at, this team will be truly something special.
I think the problem with bigs like Gobert that pile up win shares, and Lip alludes to this above, is that they just have a hard time controlling the game at the most crucial crunch time moments. Even his defensive impact will be somewhat limited in the waning moments of a game because of the lineup the opposing team will field, especially coming out of timeouts where they can put a 5-out lineup on the floor.
To your point, Rudy may indeed be the best player on a top 4 Wolves team next year in terms of regular season record. But I'm not sure that makes them a top 4 WC playoff team in the absence of Ant ascending to another level.
Q-was-here wrote:I think most of us would agree that Ant probably has to be our best player to win a title, regardless if Gobert was on the team or not. But adding Gobert into the mix along with KAT means that may be Ant doesn't need to reach LeBron/Curry/Giannis MVP-level heights in order to make us a contender. May be getting to a Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker level is good enough to at least give us a good shot at making a Finals appearance.
Like I've said before, Gobert significantly raises the floor of this team. Utah consistently won around 50 games per year with him as their best player. Yes, he had a perimeter co-star too, first it was a healthy Gordon Hayward and then Donovan Mitchell, but neither of those guys were/are MVP-caliber players and then behind them it was mostly a bunch of good role players.
If Ant becomes our best player...that means better than KAT and Rudy, who are elite at their positions...we are clearly a title contender. But I think Rudy will be our best player this year with a very solid supporting cast, and we will be a top 4 team in the west. KAT and Ant are going to score a lot of points, but Rudy's DPOY defense, elite rebounding and efficient 15.6 PPG makes him a top 10 NBA player in my estimation. If Ant joins him as a top 10 player in the next couple years and KAT continues to play at the level he is at, this team will be truly something special.
I think the problem with bigs like Gobert that pile up win shares, and Lip alludes to this above, is that they just have a hard time controlling the game at the most crucial crunch time moments. Even his defensive impact will be somewhat limited in the waning moments of a game because of the lineup the opposing team will field, especially coming out of timeouts where they can put a 5-out lineup on the floor.
To your point, Rudy may indeed be the best player on a top 4 Wolves team next year in terms of regular season record. But I'm not sure that makes them a top 4 WC playoff team in the absence of Ant ascending to another level.
I think if Edwards even becomes a top 20 player this year that would be pretty significant.
It's entirely possible, and perhaps even likely, that Minnesota will have three top-25 players in the NBA this season in Karl-Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert, and Anthony Edwards. How many other teams, if any, can reasonably make that claim? That's potentially what the Timberwolves are building around moving forward, and that's without mentioning the streaky brilliance from D'Angelo Russell or the untapped potential and development from Jaden McDaniels and Jaylen Nowell.
These are valid reasons for excitement. And while we can debate about what positions are most valuable in today's league, we should all concede that talent wins out, especially great talent. You could have theoretically thrown Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Dirk Nowitzki all on the same team together and I'd be confident they'd win a lot of games regardless of fit, for example. There's just potentially no more talented trio on one team in the entire league this season.
PS: I'd argue that teams don't often build around bigs anymore not because it's a losing strategy or blueprint, but because the caliber of bigs needed to build around, especially offensively, are rarely available.
