Minnesota Sports Forum

By the way, a pretty good night for the Wolves last night as both the Mavs and Kings won. Securing a top 10 pick won't be easy, but we're there right now and headed in the right direction. Tonight will be tough. We're hosting the Clippers. The Wolves might have a hard time losing this one.

The good news is that Miami is playing at Denver after losing last night. So I can see that 39th pick or better on the horizon. :)

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:We started the tank the moment we fired Thibodeau and made Saunders the interim. That was a clear sign that this season was going to be about evaluating and developing. Unfortunately, besides Towns, everyone else seems to have thrown in the towel on the season and will remain content with collecting their checks.

The timing of Thibs' termination is the biggest giveaway that Taylor stopped caring about winning games as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree, Cam. Taylor hasn't stopped caring about winning. He's just not smart enough to know how to go about building a franchise to win. Did he not care about winning over 4 years ago when the Wolves sold a 1st round pick for cash? Or when we drafted Dunn instead of Murray or Hield? When he hired Thibs and gave him both the head coach and PBO positions?The list goes on... The answer is no. Taylor likely cared, but either directed or signed off on really dumb decisions. This is sort of an academic debat of course, because we end up in the same place.

I'm with you completely on all the points you made. I could and should have been more clear. I meant that Taylor stopped caring about winning *this* season -- despite his statements to the media -- when he fired Thibs when he did.

lipoli390 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:I really hope we get that 39th pick from Miami that Lip was talking about. That's gonna completely change this team next year!

Lol. It will be the most important pick in the history of the Timberwolves franchise. No, make that the history of the NBA. :)

It could be if Wolves will find hidden gem like Jokic (was 41st pick) with that pick.

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

Taj, rose and Deng all have exceeded expectations as wolves. Thibs never gave up one draft pick (now he drafted bad). I take exception with saying thibs was short sighted in his moves. I will say it is hard to trade your best player coming off being a 3 seed when healthy.

In the end if Thibs time with the wolves game down to the nuggets came last year that falls on Taylor. He should of fired him last year. Taylor let this thing fester and that is taylor fault.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

Taj, rose and Deng all have exceeded expectations as wolves. Thibs never gave up one draft pick (now he drafted bad). I take exception with saying thibs was short sighted in his moves. I will say it is hard to trade your best player coming off being a 3 seed when healthy.

In the end if Thibs time with the wolves game down to the nuggets came last year that falls on Taylor. He should of fired him last year. Taylor let this thing fester and that is taylor fault.

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

Taj, rose and Deng all have exceeded expectations as wolves. Thibs never gave up one draft pick (now he drafted bad). I take exception with saying thibs was short sighted in his moves. I will say it is hard to trade your best player coming off being a 3 seed when healthy.

In the end if Thibs time with the wolves game down to the nuggets came last year that falls on Taylor. He should of fired him last year. Taylor let this thing fester and that is taylor fault.

If anyone should have seen the problem with the Butler situation it was him. Didn't Butler even tell Thibs he wanted to be traded? I seem to remember hearing that. He let it go and it blew up in his face with the Wolves starting horrible this year and Thibs lost his job. Butler wanted a long term Max deal. Shouldn't he have been in contact with Glen to see if that was even feasible, and would you want a 37 year old Butler making 45 Million anyways? A guy who already missed 20 games a year?

If he trades Butler along with other picks to draft Doncic he would still be here. It was all on Thibs for not making the what seemed obvious to me move.

If Taylor fires Thibs and brings in a competent GM and coach they trade Butler and target Doncic.

We got option 3, because both the Owner and Coach were idiots.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

Taj, rose and Deng all have exceeded expectations as wolves. Thibs never gave up one draft pick (now he drafted bad). I take exception with saying thibs was short sighted in his moves. I will say it is hard to trade your best player coming off being a 3 seed when healthy.

In the end if Thibs time with the wolves game down to the nuggets came last year that falls on Taylor. He should of fired him last year. Taylor let this thing fester and that is taylor fault.

If anyone should have seen the problem with the Butler situation it was him. Didn't Butler even tell Thibs he wanted to be traded? I seem to remember hearing that. He let it go and it blew up in his face with the Wolves starting horrible this year and Thibs lost his job. Butler wanted a long term Max deal. Shouldn't he have been in contact with Glen to see if that was even feasible, and would you want a 37 year old Butler making 45 Million anyways? A guy who already missed 20 games a year?

If he trades Butler along with other picks to draft Doncic he would still be here. It was all on Thibs for not making the what seemed obvious to me move.

If Taylor fires Thibs and brings in a competent GM and coach they trade Butler and target Doncic.

We got option 3, because both the Owner and Coach were idiots.

Once again he would be blowing up a top 3 seed team on the hope Donicic is good (he ended up being good). None of the jimmy wanted out things would have come up and this board would of freaked if we ended up with a bagley type player.

I honestly believe if Jimmy wasn't hypocritical ass we would be in good shape for the 2 seed and possibly a contender in 2020 with the warriors possibly breaking up.

Think it is a lot of hindsight bias to say blow a top 3 seed up. For a hope a draft pick is good. (I mean doncic went 3 not everyone believed in him). In the end of course it would have been the correct move but for a team that rarely wins to blow it up for hope doesn't seem realistic

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

Taj, rose and Deng all have exceeded expectations as wolves. Thibs never gave up one draft pick (now he drafted bad). I take exception with saying thibs was short sighted in his moves. I will say it is hard to trade your best player coming off being a 3 seed when healthy.

In the end if Thibs time with the wolves game down to the nuggets came last year that falls on Taylor. He should of fired him last year. Taylor let this thing fester and that is taylor fault.

If anyone should have seen the problem with the Butler situation it was him. Didn't Butler even tell Thibs he wanted to be traded? I seem to remember hearing that. He let it go and it blew up in his face with the Wolves starting horrible this year and Thibs lost his job. Butler wanted a long term Max deal. Shouldn't he have been in contact with Glen to see if that was even feasible, and would you want a 37 year old Butler making 45 Million anyways? A guy who already missed 20 games a year?

If he trades Butler along with other picks to draft Doncic he would still be here. It was all on Thibs for not making the what seemed obvious to me move.

If Taylor fires Thibs and brings in a competent GM and coach they trade Butler and target Doncic.

We got option 3, because both the Owner and Coach were idiots.

Lots of favorable IFs in your scenario with this franchise along with Glen as the owner...I'm joking and serious and also crying on the inside. Lol

Also I wasn't aware we could give Butler a 7 year deal. :) He turns 30 in September. I wasn't in favor of giving him a 5 year absolute max deal from the beginning. I was hoping for a discount of some sort at least just a 4 year deal instead of 5. Thibs deserves all the criticism for the way he handled Butler but it's hard to fault him much for having Deng and Rose on the roster. Heck those guys probably validate him to some extent as much as anything. I'd guess Rose's success probably was a factor in Thibs keeping the job this season as long as he did. Thibs "Win Now!" Should be reserved mostly for the Butler situation. If someome wanted to just acquire assets and build for the future put Covington on the market and watch the offers roll in. I still think the Saric Covington and financial flexibility of the trade we did was pretty good. A lot depends on how good Saric is or isn't. It also depends on other wolves the Wolves do or don't make.

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:If Taylor wasn't an idiot he would have fired Thibs at the end of last season like I said. Then followed my advice the organization would have then traded Butler for a high draft pick in last years draft targeting my number 1 talent Doncic. (not saying it was 100 percent possible but I did say any team who passes on him will regret it forever.)

Just imagine if we had Doncic and a good coach right now. It's amazing how quickly bad or lack of decision making can destroy the franchises hope.

Yes! As you recall, that's also exactly what I wanted to do.

Yes I do remember, it seemed many posters were against us though, I don't know why they don't want to win.

I wasn't against it (LOVED LUKA) I simply didn't think it was realistic...and I still don't.

Like I said we don't know if it would have worked or not. Butler and swapping 1st rounders to move up (maybe have to throw in the next years 1st too). I highly doubt that was ever considered by Thibs. That was the problem.

It was obvious to me that Thibs was not looking at the long term and mainly fixated on winning now. Bringing in all his old Bulls players. I knew it wouldn't work (I guess if your goal was to make the 8th seed I guess you can say it worked! lol), we needed another star instead of Butler because it was quite obvious that with Butlers extension coming up Glen would not go into the Lux cap to resign him with KAT (scheduled) and Wiggins already signed.

So Butler had to be moved. Doncic was the obvious target as he looked like a poor mans LeBron. A playmaker wing who can do it all.

Taj, rose and Deng all have exceeded expectations as wolves. Thibs never gave up one draft pick (now he drafted bad). I take exception with saying thibs was short sighted in his moves. I will say it is hard to trade your best player coming off being a 3 seed when healthy.

In the end if Thibs time with the wolves game down to the nuggets came last year that falls on Taylor. He should of fired him last year. Taylor let this thing fester and that is taylor fault.

If anyone should have seen the problem with the Butler situation it was him. Didn't Butler even tell Thibs he wanted to be traded? I seem to remember hearing that. He let it go and it blew up in his face with the Wolves starting horrible this year and Thibs lost his job. Butler wanted a long term Max deal. Shouldn't he have been in contact with Glen to see if that was even feasible, and would you want a 37 year old Butler making 45 Million anyways? A guy who already missed 20 games a year?

If he trades Butler along with other picks to draft Doncic he would still be here. It was all on Thibs for not making the what seemed obvious to me move.

If Taylor fires Thibs and brings in a competent GM and coach they trade Butler and target Doncic.

We got option 3, because both the Owner and Coach were idiots.

Lots of favorable IFs in your scenario with this franchise along with Glen as the owner...I'm joking and serious and also crying on the inside. Lol

Also I wasn't aware we could give Butler a 7 year deal. :) He turns 30 in September. I wasn't in favor of giving him a 5 year absolute max deal from the beginning. I was hoping for a discount of some sort at least just a 4 year deal instead of 5. Thibs deserves all the criticism for the way he handled Butler but it's hard to fault him much for having Deng and Rose on the roster. Heck those guys probably validate him to some extent as much as anything. I'd guess Rose's success probably was a factor in Thibs keeping the job this season as long as he did. Thibs "Win Now!" Should be reserved mostly for the Butler situation. If someome wanted to just acquire assets and build for the future put Covington on the market and watch the offers roll in. I still think the Saric Covington and financial flexibility of the trade we did was pretty good. A lot depends on how good Saric is or isn't. It also depends on other wolves the Wolves do or don't make.

Yeah, they had to settle for Covington and Saric, yes I like both but both are not potential superstars either. I hope Cov doesn't have long term knee problems from now on.

I also didn't clarify myself better, I believe Butler asked for a trade to Thibs right after last season was over (losing in the playoffs) and before the draft. So the writing was on the wall. Moving Butler then would have been the smart thing to do.

Also Kekgeek, The Wolves were not the 3 seed, Butler missed what he USUALLY does. It's not anything new for him to miss 20 games a year, he did. That's him. So the Wolves were the 8th seed and not trending up cause Butler was about to blow it up. Butler wasn't going to get a Max deal here, he knew it so he made himself a nice distraction by acting like himself and getting his way out.

At the point after the season and before the draft was when the decision had to be made. At that time it was possible to get Doncic. It was a win now move to try and keep Butler. The other moves were OK. The Wolves are still not exactly a contender now are they, so they can't be that great either.