Minnesota Sports Forum

BizarroJerry wrote:Anyone else seeing a repeat from last season only this time we back into the 8th seed and get swept? Would we call that a success for Ryan? I think we do.

Well...while ago actually agree with you basic premise of success...we didn't get swept last year we won a game! :) I can see that this year even if we play GS. If the #1 seed is Denver I think if healthy we have a chance to make it a series. Denver has been terrific and Malone should be considered coach of the year but it's not an experienced playoff roster we would at least have a shot against them.

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Heck, if we went by lottery picks, we should have won a few titles by now considering that at one time we had three consecutive #1 picks on our roster (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, and KAT).

It's nuts how little we have to show for all the lottery picks over the years.

BizarroJerry wrote:Anyone else seeing a repeat from last season only this time we back into the 8th seed and get swept? Would we call that a success for Ryan? I think we do.

That would absolutely be a success. If we are the 8th seed in the West, it means we are probably the 12th or 13th best team overall in the NBA despite a pretty bad start.

I also think if he just misses the playoffs, but we stay very competitive and the players play hard for him he will also likely be retained.

The big wildcard of course is who we hire as GM. That person may want to hire their own coach, regardless of how well Ryan does. That certainly complicates things considering the "feel-good" story thus far and Glen's affinity for the Saunders family.

Q12543 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Heck, if we went by lottery picks, we should have won a few titles by now considering that at one time we had three consecutive #1 picks on our roster (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, and KAT).

It's nuts how little we have to show for all the lottery picks over the years.

True, but you gotta coach 'em too, and many here are now in agreement that coaching young potential stars is clearly not Thibs' forte. All we know is that at the time of the draft, those lottery picks were more highly regarded than the Covingtons of the world for example. You're right that success in college does not automatically translate to success in the pros, but I also think our picks haven't had the benefit of the best development coaching.

Q12543 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Anyone else seeing a repeat from last season only this time we back into the 8th seed and get swept? Would we call that a success for Ryan? I think we do.

That would absolutely be a success. If we are the 8th seed in the West, it means we are probably the 12th or 13th best team overall in the NBA despite a pretty bad start.

I also think if he just misses the playoffs, but we stay very competitive and the players play hard for him he will also likely be retained.

The big wildcard of course is who we hire as GM. That person may want to hire their own coach, regardless of how well Ryan does. That certainly complicates things considering the "feel-good" story thus far and Glen's affinity for the Saunders family.

If Ryan does well the rest of the way this season, I suspect that retaining Ryan will be one of the criteria used in selecting the next PBO. And if Ryan does well, I think a lot of really good PBO candidates would happily agree to retain Saunders - understanding that no coach has anything close to a lifetime claim on his job in the NBA. But is shouldn't be hard to find a PBO who would like Saunders as the head coach if it looks like having Saunders in that position will help the team win.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Heck, if we went by lottery picks, we should have won a few titles by now considering that at one time we had three consecutive #1 picks on our roster (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, and KAT).

It's nuts how little we have to show for all the lottery picks over the years.

True, but you gotta coach 'em too, and many here are now in agreement that coaching young potential stars is clearly not Thibs' forte. All we know is that at the time of the draft, those lottery picks were more highly regarded than the Covingtons of the world for example. You're right that success in college does not automatically translate to success in the pros, but I also think our picks haven't had the benefit of the best development coaching.

....but Thibs never coached AB and Flip and Smitch pre-date Thibs with Andrew and KAT. Thibs the POBO, not the coach, screwed up on Patton. Dunn was traded. Okogie looks like he could be something if he ever learns to shoot.

The reality is our ability to draft and develop players is a chronic shortfall that this franchise has had since its inception. Thibs is one speck in the long line of incompetency on this front.

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Not tongue in cheek, mikkeman. We all talk about how valuable a first round pick is, and wring our hands when one is given away. You win with talent and lottery picks (and first round picks) are the players that a lot of smart guys believe are the most likely to succeed in the pros...not always going to turn out that way, but statisticians have demonstrated how picks 1-13 have performed better over time than picks 14-30, and that first round picks are more likely to perform better than second rounders and free agents. You cite Milwaukee for example, but I count at least 9 first round picks on that team...certainly a talented team based on what the experts thought coming out of college. And I would also say that I agreed with Thibs when he said we had one of the most talented rosters in the NBA...you win with talent. What you do with them is another matter, and my premise is this team has struggled because our players have not been coached properly. And I think the combination of a more talented roster combined with more positive coaching sets us up well for the playoffs.

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Heck, if we went by lottery picks, we should have won a few titles by now considering that at one time we had three consecutive #1 picks on our roster (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, and KAT).

It's nuts how little we have to show for all the lottery picks over the years.

True, but you gotta coach 'em too, and many here are now in agreement that coaching young potential stars is clearly not Thibs' forte. All we know is that at the time of the draft, those lottery picks were more highly regarded than the Covingtons of the world for example. You're right that success in college does not automatically translate to success in the pros, but I also think our picks haven't had the benefit of the best development coaching.

....but Thibs never coached AB and Flip and Smitch pre-date Thibs with Andrew and KAT. Thibs the POBO, not the coach, screwed up on Patton. Dunn was traded. Okogie looks like he could be something if he ever learns to shoot.

The reality is our ability to draft and develop players is a chronic shortfall that this franchise has had since its inception. Thibs is one speck in the long line of incompetency on this front.

Sadly, you're right about Thibs being one link in a long line of front office incompetency. Thibs the POBO screwed up drafting Patton over John Collins and Dunn over either Murray or Hield. He screwed up giving the big contract to Gorgui. He screwed up not dealing Wiggins when he had value, then doubled down on the screw-up by giving Andrew a max deal. I think he screwed up signing Teague to a 3-year $19 million contract when he could have signed someone like Darren Collison for half that amount. He screwed up in his handling of the Butler situation, burying his head in the sand for months and allowing the situation to spiral out of control in a way that not only embarrassed the franchise, but ultimately hurt the team's performance. He screwed up by alienating colleagues in the organization, not only failing to build relationships but treating colleagues poorly and failing to work with the business side of the operation. Of course, Flip has his own list of screw-ups, but not as many. David Kahn of course takes the cake for number and degree of screwups, although perhaps the biggest screw up was the McHale-Saunders secret Joe Smith deal.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
I don't know that Ryan has to do much to get the most out of this roster (although I think he will)...just don't be a negative like Thibs was. I haven't checked rosters other than the Jazz, but I wonder if anyone else we are battling with has 8 lottery picks, 4 more 1st round picks plus an All-NBA defender. I doubt it. Utah for example has 6 lottery players (and also an All-NBA defender), but three of them are out for at least the next two weeks. Based on talent alone, this is a playoff team. If Ryan just becomes addition by subtraction, this roster should play much better. Sure, I'm an optimist, but talent matters, and I don't see the talent and depth on teams we are competing with that I see on our roster.

I don't know if your comment was made in tongue-in-cheek or not but I think that calculating the amount of lottery picks in roster is a really stupid way to estimate the amount of talent.

Based on that Bucks and Raptors should be probably the least talented team in league with just two lottery picks in their roster. (Maker & Lopez and Monroe & Valanciunas)

Correspondingly Suns, Cavs and Knicks should be among most talented since each team has at least seven lottery picks in their roster.

Heck, if we went by lottery picks, we should have won a few titles by now considering that at one time we had three consecutive #1 picks on our roster (Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, and KAT).

It's nuts how little we have to show for all the lottery picks over the years.

True, but you gotta coach 'em too, and many here are now in agreement that coaching young potential stars is clearly not Thibs' forte. All we know is that at the time of the draft, those lottery picks were more highly regarded than the Covingtons of the world for example. You're right that success in college does not automatically translate to success in the pros, but I also think our picks haven't had the benefit of the best development coaching.

....but Thibs never coached AB and Flip and Smitch pre-date Thibs with Andrew and KAT. Thibs the POBO, not the coach, screwed up on Patton. Dunn was traded. Okogie looks like he could be something if he ever learns to shoot.

The reality is our ability to draft and develop players is a chronic shortfall that this franchise has had since its inception. Thibs is one speck in the long line of incompetency on this front.

Sadly, you're right about Thibs being one link in a long line of front office incompetency. Thibs the POBO screwed up drafting Patton over John Collins and Dunn over either Murray or Hield. He screwed up giving the big contract to Gorgui. He screwed up not dealing Wiggins when he had value, then doubled down on the screw-up by giving Andrew a max deal. I think he screwed up signing Teague to a 3-year $19 million contract when he could have signed someone like Darren Collison for half that amount. He screwed up in his handling of the Butler situation, burying his head in the sand for months and allowing the situation to spiral out of control in a way that not only embarrassed the franchise, but ultimately hurt the team's performance. He screwed up by alienating colleagues in the organization, not only failing to build relationships but treating colleagues poorly and failing to work with the business side of the operation. Of course, Flip has his own list of screw-ups, but not as many. David Kahn of course takes the cake for number and degree of screwups, although perhaps the biggest screw up was the McHale-Saunders secret Joe Smith deal.

....just to add to the bone pile, how about underutilizing Bjelica? Here Bjelly is now a starting PF in Sacramento and having a career year at age 30. His advanced stats across the board are all at career highs.