Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Minnesota fans are bad. They're always waiting for the worst to happen, and generally try to act like they don't really care that much about their sports. We've had multiple franchises leave without much real action. We've stadiums rot until owners treaten to leave. The negative atmosphere around Wiggins is a microcosm of the culture, fans just don't care that much and as far as I can tell neither does the owner. A healthy franchise would have had the owner and Wiggins give a joint press conference about how much they care about their fans.

All that being said if fans have the right to be negative about Wiggins then he has a right to be negative about them. None of it is healthy or a good sign of the state of our franchise. But it's where we are at, we're a joke of a franchise and now frustrated players and frustrated fans are aiming their attacks at each other rather than the individual most responsible, Glen Taylor. He's the Billionare who's been putting out a lacklustre product without caring at all for a while. How come people don't go to the game and boo that loser the whole time. At least Wiggins is out there trying to win. Seems like all the frustration is misguided as I see it.

Doper, why is it you don't think the fans should have the right to be critical of WIggins, but it sounds as if you think they should be handing over their money for the venues these teams play in. The fact that they can pay Wiggins 150 mil, or Gorgui 60 mil makes me think they should be spending less on contracts, and building their own arenas.

Wiggins is clearly delirious when determining his current level as a BB player. This guy came out publicly and stated he thought he was a max player. He has shown no substantial improvement in his 4 years here. I think he should have come out and apologized for his performance the other night (not that I watched it). I thought it was hilarious that he said he would hit the gym and get back to normal for the next game. Does he realize how far below a max player level his normal is?

I said clearly fans can be critical of Wiggins and Wiggins can be critical of fans. But when fans and players are always looking for something to bitch about you've got the recipe for a bad sports market. I think the Wolves are top of the NBA in shitty franchises right now. The fans are pessimistic and angry, the owner is asleep at the wheel, and the players underwhelm and underperform.

I think it says a lot the 3 of our best 4 players of all time (KG, Love, Butler) all hate our owner.

kekgeek1 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Minnesota fans are bad. They're always waiting for the worst to happen, and generally try to act like they don't really care that much about their sports. We've had multiple franchises leave without much real action. We've stadiums rot until owners treaten to leave. The negative atmosphere around Wiggins is a microcosm of the culture, fans just don't care that much and as far as I can tell neither does the owner. A healthy franchise would have had the owner and Wiggins give a joint press conference about how much they care about their fans.

All that being said if fans have the right to be negative about Wiggins then he has a right to be negative about them. None of it is healthy or a good sign of the state of our franchise. But it's where we are at, we're a joke of a franchise and now frustrated players and frustrated fans are aiming their attacks at each other rather than the individual most responsible, Glen Taylor. He's the Billionare who's been putting out a lacklustre product without caring at all for a while. How come people don't go to the game and boo that loser the whole time. At least Wiggins is out there trying to win. Seems like all the frustration is misguided as I see it.

Doper, why is it you don't think the fans should have the right to be critical of WIggins, but it sounds as if you think they should be handing over their money for the venues these teams play in. The fact that they can pay Wiggins 150 mil, or Gorgui 60 mil makes me think they should be spending less on contracts, and building their own arenas.

Wiggins is clearly delirious when determining his current level as a BB player. This guy came out publicly and stated he thought he was a max player. He has shown no substantial improvement in his 4 years here. I think he should have come out and apologized for his performance the other night (not that I watched it). I thought it was hilarious that he said he would hit the gym and get back to normal for the next game. Does he realize how far below a max player level his normal is?

I said clearly fans can be critical of Wiggins and Wiggins can be critical of fans. But when fans and players are always looking for something to bitch about you've got the recipe for a bad sports market. I think the Wolves are top of the NBA in shitty franchises right now. The fans are pessimistic and angry, the owner is asleep at the wheel, and the players underwhelm and underperform.

I think it says a lot the 3 of our best 4 players of all time (KG, Love, Butler) all hate our owner.

Yeah KG just did his area 21 thing with Jimmy trying to help him explain it was about management. Since Jimmy says he still loves Thibs that leaves Taylor and Layton. My guess is most of the animosity is aimed at Taylor.

thedoper wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Minnesota fans are bad. They're always waiting for the worst to happen, and generally try to act like they don't really care that much about their sports. We've had multiple franchises leave without much real action. We've stadiums rot until owners treaten to leave. The negative atmosphere around Wiggins is a microcosm of the culture, fans just don't care that much and as far as I can tell neither does the owner. A healthy franchise would have had the owner and Wiggins give a joint press conference about how much they care about their fans.

All that being said if fans have the right to be negative about Wiggins then he has a right to be negative about them. None of it is healthy or a good sign of the state of our franchise. But it's where we are at, we're a joke of a franchise and now frustrated players and frustrated fans are aiming their attacks at each other rather than the individual most responsible, Glen Taylor. He's the Billionare who's been putting out a lacklustre product without caring at all for a while. How come people don't go to the game and boo that loser the whole time. At least Wiggins is out there trying to win. Seems like all the frustration is misguided as I see it.

Doper, why is it you don't think the fans should have the right to be critical of WIggins, but it sounds as if you think they should be handing over their money for the venues these teams play in. The fact that they can pay Wiggins 150 mil, or Gorgui 60 mil makes me think they should be spending less on contracts, and building their own arenas.

Wiggins is clearly delirious when determining his current level as a BB player. This guy came out publicly and stated he thought he was a max player. He has shown no substantial improvement in his 4 years here. I think he should have come out and apologized for his performance the other night (not that I watched it). I thought it was hilarious that he said he would hit the gym and get back to normal for the next game. Does he realize how far below a max player level his normal is?

I said clearly fans can be critical of Wiggins and Wiggins can be critical of fans. But when fans and players are always looking for something to bitch about you've got the recipe for a bad sports market. I think the Wolves are top of the NBA in shitty franchises right now. The fans are pessimistic and angry, the owner is asleep at the wheel, and the players underwhelm and underperform.

Fans are already marginalized more than ever -- for players to blatantly flaunt that fact seems a bit dicey for me. I think the fact that fans PAY money... and players MAKE money... skews the relationship just a bit about who deserves criticism for not living up to their end of the bargain.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Minnesota fans are bad. They're always waiting for the worst to happen, and generally try to act like they don't really care that much about their sports. We've had multiple franchises leave without much real action. We've stadiums rot until owners treaten to leave. The negative atmosphere around Wiggins is a microcosm of the culture, fans just don't care that much and as far as I can tell neither does the owner. A healthy franchise would have had the owner and Wiggins give a joint press conference about how much they care about their fans.

All that being said if fans have the right to be negative about Wiggins then he has a right to be negative about them. None of it is healthy or a good sign of the state of our franchise. But it's where we are at, we're a joke of a franchise and now frustrated players and frustrated fans are aiming their attacks at each other rather than the individual most responsible, Glen Taylor. He's the Billionare who's been putting out a lacklustre product without caring at all for a while. How come people don't go to the game and boo that loser the whole time. At least Wiggins is out there trying to win. Seems like all the frustration is misguided as I see it.

Doper, why is it you don't think the fans should have the right to be critical of WIggins, but it sounds as if you think they should be handing over their money for the venues these teams play in. The fact that they can pay Wiggins 150 mil, or Gorgui 60 mil makes me think they should be spending less on contracts, and building their own arenas.

Wiggins is clearly delirious when determining his current level as a BB player. This guy came out publicly and stated he thought he was a max player. He has shown no substantial improvement in his 4 years here. I think he should have come out and apologized for his performance the other night (not that I watched it). I thought it was hilarious that he said he would hit the gym and get back to normal for the next game. Does he realize how far below a max player level his normal is?

I said clearly fans can be critical of Wiggins and Wiggins can be critical of fans. But when fans and players are always looking for something to bitch about you've got the recipe for a bad sports market. I think the Wolves are top of the NBA in shitty franchises right now. The fans are pessimistic and angry, the owner is asleep at the wheel, and the players underwhelm and underperform.

Fans are already marginalized more than ever -- for players to blatantly flaunt that fact seems a bit dicey for me. I think the fact that fans PAY money... and players MAKE money... skews the relationship just a bit about who deserves criticism for not living up to their end of the bargain.

That's an interesting take. Marginalizied because of the price of attending a game in person you mean? I'm not trying to disagree I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Fans have a ton of new access via the internet to follow teams. The NBA is bigger than ever and has more fans than ever. I guess local fans or fans of small market teams may be more marginalized, but that's usually because they are poorly run.

Overall, because fans pay it gives them a right to complain absolutely. But it doesn't mean it's beneficial to do so. For instance, I'm still kind of amazed at OKCs turnaround this year. I felt if we had been in their shoes after losing Durant we would have not faired as well. The fans would have been super depressed and the bad moves by our inept leadership team would have follwdBut overall their fans seem super enthusiastic and supportive through it all and now their back to playing some solid basketball. Maybe if we had more recent success our fans would be the same. But I've seen the Wolves in 6 arenas now, and every other place I've been to has had a more electric atmosphere than Target Center. I think Wolves fans feel marginalized, but I think that's because we have an owner that hasn't given a fuck for years now.

thedoper wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Minnesota fans are bad. They're always waiting for the worst to happen, and generally try to act like they don't really care that much about their sports. We've had multiple franchises leave without much real action. We've stadiums rot until owners treaten to leave. The negative atmosphere around Wiggins is a microcosm of the culture, fans just don't care that much and as far as I can tell neither does the owner. A healthy franchise would have had the owner and Wiggins give a joint press conference about how much they care about their fans.

All that being said if fans have the right to be negative about Wiggins then he has a right to be negative about them. None of it is healthy or a good sign of the state of our franchise. But it's where we are at, we're a joke of a franchise and now frustrated players and frustrated fans are aiming their attacks at each other rather than the individual most responsible, Glen Taylor. He's the Billionare who's been putting out a lacklustre product without caring at all for a while. How come people don't go to the game and boo that loser the whole time. At least Wiggins is out there trying to win. Seems like all the frustration is misguided as I see it.

Doper, why is it you don't think the fans should have the right to be critical of WIggins, but it sounds as if you think they should be handing over their money for the venues these teams play in. The fact that they can pay Wiggins 150 mil, or Gorgui 60 mil makes me think they should be spending less on contracts, and building their own arenas.

Wiggins is clearly delirious when determining his current level as a BB player. This guy came out publicly and stated he thought he was a max player. He has shown no substantial improvement in his 4 years here. I think he should have come out and apologized for his performance the other night (not that I watched it). I thought it was hilarious that he said he would hit the gym and get back to normal for the next game. Does he realize how far below a max player level his normal is?

I said clearly fans can be critical of Wiggins and Wiggins can be critical of fans. But when fans and players are always looking for something to bitch about you've got the recipe for a bad sports market. I think the Wolves are top of the NBA in shitty franchises right now. The fans are pessimistic and angry, the owner is asleep at the wheel, and the players underwhelm and underperform.

Fans are already marginalized more than ever -- for players to blatantly flaunt that fact seems a bit dicey for me. I think the fact that fans PAY money... and players MAKE money... skews the relationship just a bit about who deserves criticism for not living up to their end of the bargain.

That's an interesting take. Marginalizied because of the price of attending a game in person you mean? I'm not trying to disagree I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Fans have a ton of new access via the internet to follow teams. The NBA is bigger than ever and has more fans than ever. I guess local fans or fans of small market teams may be more marginalized, but that's usually because they are poorly run.

Overall, because fans pay it gives them a right to complain absolutely. But it doesn't mean it's beneficial to do so. For instance, I'm still kind of amazed at OKCs turnaround this year. I felt if we had been in their shoes after losing Durant we would have not faired as well. The fans would have been super depressed and the bad moves by our inept leadership team would have follwdBut overall their fans seem super enthusiastic and supportive through it all and now their back to playing some solid basketball. Maybe if we had more recent success our fans would be the same. But I've seen the Wolves in 6 arenas now, and every other place I've been to has had a more electric atmosphere than Target Center. I think Wolves fans feel marginalized, but I think that's because we have an owner that hasn't given a fuck for years now.

I think every fan, in every city, is marginalized. I think we see it different ways every day. For example, when we go online and because a team is struggling on the court and because they're about to lose the best player (see New Orleans)... I hear national voices say "it's time to move to Seattle." Wait... what? What did the fans do wrong? To be fair... Seattle is a better locale for pro hoops than NO... but the decision to move should suddenly be based on W/L... ?

Or, "What was wrong with Kevin Garnett for not demanding a trade out of MN years ago?" ... it's like players showing loyalty for fans is suddenly a bad thing. Or, "we're going to deliberately try to lose for multiple years, but screw you if you dare drop your season tickets."

As for Wolves fans specifically. It's been 30 years now. And Andrew Wiggins + Glen Taylor are two of the most extreme examples in pro sports at the moment. Again, I go back to the Philly situation with a young Robert Covington. MN fans are not relentless toward players. Look at this board for proof... we're STILL hoping Wiggins figures it out after 5 seasons!

Philly fans were booing Covington every time he touched the ball despite him being on one of the league's most team-friendly contracts. MN is a pretty easy place for players to play without too much stress or venom in my opinion.

People who think Wolves fans are bad haven't lived and attended many games in other cities. I have relatives in Philadelphia and Milwaukee. I grew up in Chicago. I've seen a number of basketball, football and baseball games in all three cities. You'll find a lot more negativity in Philadelphia and Chicago than here in my experience when things aren't going well. Players in those cities, as well as in New York, Boston and Detroit, are treated far more harshly than players in Minnesota. And the media in those cities are far, far more critical and unforgiving.

My main criticism of Minnesota fans - especially Wolves fans - is that they're generally too reserved. I've experience some people at Wolves games getting pissed at me and others for making too much noise- something you'd never see in any other NBA arena. I'd like more noise, more emotion and yes, more boos, when deserved. By the way, did you all notice all the empty seats in Miami. That's typical. Talk about apathetic fans, Miami Heat fans take cake. The only time they ever come close to filling their arena is when they have multiple superstars like Shaq/Wade or LeBron/Wade/Bost AND compete for championships.