CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'd be happy if KAT planted his ass in the low post and dominated like I know he can. Sure he can shoot the 3, but he's close to unstoppable in the paint. Get hm 25 shots a night down there.
The rub is that it's tough to get him touches down there with the new rules in place. Teams can front him... even with a shorter player. And I don't know what his percentage is on the block vs. other bigs... but him shooting 40% around the arc is exactly what helps him separate from other big men.
I'm not saying he shouldn't take the occasional three, he should. The Bulls broadcast last night was marveling at his work in the paint. They couldn't understand why he doesn't spend more time there. I agree.
I'm not buying the idea it's tougher to get him touches down there. It's suicide to front him with a smaller player. The way we spread the floor it should be easy to get him the ball in the low post. When he's doubled we should be able to make them pay.
His role is to be a floor spacer for Rose and Teague.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'd be happy if KAT planted his ass in the low post and dominated like I know he can. Sure he can shoot the 3, but he's close to unstoppable in the paint. Get hm 25 shots a night down there.
This is absolutely it. Embid is making a living there because there's so few players that can defend the low post. KAT in the low post, elbow sets for Saric and Wiggins. If you're going to have shoot first PGs make the motion come off those 3 points. KAT can still leak out in designed sets for his shot, but his primary low should be down low.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'd be happy if KAT planted his ass in the low post and dominated like I know he can. Sure he can shoot the 3, but he's close to unstoppable in the paint. Get hm 25 shots a night down there.
This is absolutely it. Embid is making a living there because there's so few players that can defend the low post. KAT in the low post, elbow sets for Saric and Wiggins. If you're going to have shoot first PGs make the motion come off those 3 points. KAT can still leak out in designed sets for his shot, but his primary low should be down low.
Our offense doesnt make it easy for kat in the post. Its basically dump it into him and stand in the corner.
Its basically the same action as the pg pnr.
Id love to see us run the offense like we did vs okc. Kat playing the noah role at the elbows but also being the scoring threat that noah wasnt. We had 2 or 3 guys constantly cutting and moving. Rarely did we run stationary isos with 4 guys just standing. We can run a modern offense, but thibs chooses not to.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'd be happy if KAT planted his ass in the low post and dominated like I know he can. Sure he can shoot the 3, but he's close to unstoppable in the paint. Get hm 25 shots a night down there.
This is absolutely it. Embid is making a living there because there's so few players that can defend the low post. KAT in the low post, elbow sets for Saric and Wiggins. If you're going to have shoot first PGs make the motion come off those 3 points. KAT can still leak out in designed sets for his shot, but his primary low should be down low.
Our offense doesnt make it easy for kat in the post. Its basically dump it into him and stand in the corner.
Its basically the same action as the pg pnr.
Id love to see us run the offense like we did vs okc. Kat playing the noah role at the elbows but also being the scoring threat that noah wasnt. We had 2 or 3 guys constantly cutting and moving. Rarely did we run stationary isos with 4 guys just standing. We can run a modern offense, but thibs chooses not to.
Anyone have incriminating photos of Thibs to help him see the logic of that?
jake_elwood wrote:I'm not saying we shouldn't re-sign Rose. If he keeps up near this level of production, we should definitely try to. I'm not saying we shouldn't wait and see how we develop. But, moving forward with this core, SOMETHING needs to happen to make us more than a first round out for the only time besides 2004. Maybe we can strike gold in the draft. I hope so. But, when was the last "good" pick we made? KAT doesn't count. Kevin Love?
I get that people don't want to include No. 1 overall picks as "good picks" because you're typically looking for picks that were considered hidden gems or steals, but make no mistake about it, Towns was a great pick. We've seen the other side of the coin -- where No. 1 picks are busts or just never become good players. Look at Anthony Bennett, Markelle Fultz, and even Andrew Wiggins. You still don't think Towns was a good pick?
Not to mention, there were a number of posters here and draft "experts" that weren't sold on Towns being the best choice. If you remember, plenty of people had their eyes on Jahlil Okafor or D'Angelo Russell, as well as the smaller group that saw Porzingis being in the conversation.
jake_elwood wrote:I'm not saying we shouldn't re-sign Rose. If he keeps up near this level of production, we should definitely try to. I'm not saying we shouldn't wait and see how we develop. But, moving forward with this core, SOMETHING needs to happen to make us more than a first round out for the only time besides 2004. Maybe we can strike gold in the draft. I hope so. But, when was the last "good" pick we made? KAT doesn't count. Kevin Love?
I get that people don't want to include No. 1 overall picks as "good picks" because you're typically looking for picks that were considered hidden gems or steals, but make no mistake about it, Towns was a great pick. We've seen the other side of the coin -- where No. 1 picks are busts or just never become good players. Look at Anthony Bennett, Markelle Fultz, and even Andrew Wiggins. You still don't think Towns was a good pick?
Not to mention, there were a number of posters here and draft "experts" that weren't sold on Towns being the best choice. If you remember, plenty of people had their eyes on Jahlil Okafor or D'Angelo Russell, as well as the smaller group that saw Porzingis being in the conversation.
I'll add that Lavine was clearly a good pick. I think most here are pretty happy with the Okogie selection also.
Meanwhile the idea that this is just a playoffs and our team for sure is something I don't agree with and I say that knowing there isn't a certainty we even get in. What if we get the 8th seed but we face one of the other teams not named the Warriors? What if we end up the 6th seed? What about an even higher seed? Those things are all possible. Likely? No but there is over half the season left and we are easily in the hunt we should be pushing towards making something happen here.
Derrick Rose is an example although an unusual circumstance of how you can improve your team in addition to the draft and typical free agency. You need to find some undervalued players and get something out of them and some become VERY important. Against a number of teams when healthy the bench really does some damage. This team has legit talent to win games. Meanwhile there is enough options to improve via the draft and otherwise to get this team to a higher level.
KAT just doesn't have the lower body strength to hang out in the post. He gets pushed out to 15-20 ft all the time. I'm all for more post touches for him, but he doesn't do it more now because he can't get great position and anchor there to get the ball. He needs to stop skipping leg day and put on some weight so he can be more of a big and less of a roaming big who can easily get pushed around. Screening and post presence are just so much more important for him than running the floor on the fast break.
khans2k5 wrote:KAT just doesn't have the lower body strength to hang out in the post. He gets pushed out to 15-20 ft all the time. I'm all for more post touches for him, but he doesn't do it more now because he can't get great position and anchor there to get the ball. He needs to stop skipping leg day and put on some weight so he can be more of a big and less of a roaming big who can easily get pushed around. Screening and post presence are just so much more important for him than running the floor on the fast break.
FWIW Towns is 2nd in the league in post ups behind Aldridge and just ahead of Embiid. It's not like he isn't getting touches there. I think the idea that we should just cram the ball down there all the time while not utilizing his perimeter game would be a different sort of crime.
You are right Towns isn't the overwhelming physical specimen of someone like Embiid (draws over twice as many fouls in the post) but Towns has other skills. You and I have been harping on his screen game for years now. I think it's been better this season which is a good development even if it's not where it needs to be.
To me it keeps looking like Saric could be a good long term compliment to Towns. He is big and strong and does some of the things Towns isn't as good at. I've been trying to come up with a reasonable but not outlandish comp for if Saric turns into a championship level starter. He isn't the rim protector that Horford is but he does a lot of the other stuff that matters like Horford does. You can see Saric and Towns being able to play sort of a 2 man game because Saric could get Towns good opportunities as a perimeter guy passing him the ball in addition to spacing and being a terrific cutter. I'm still searching for the right comp of a contender starter for Saric but he is a unique and skilled player.
A guy next to Towns may not seem like it's as valuable as say getting a wing player in a trade but if Saric is the right guy AND we sign him to an appropriate or even value contract to keep him here it could be a hell of an addition especially when Covington is locked in for a bargain deal. I still think there is a chance we will have a debate down the road about which guy you would rather have Josh Richardson or Saric and there is no clear answer which would make getting Saric in that deal a big win. Saric has been VERY efficient as a Wolf and leads the team in TS% .612 which is easily a career high if it held up. To bring it around the the point of this thread Saric could be a pretty big part of the next step forward. Meanwhile this season the Wolves have a hell of a PF rotation and Tolliver just hanging around if needed. Looking farther down the road KDB hasn't been effiencient in the G-league but his other numbers rebounds steals and blocks are plenty productive.
Towns can be very effective posting up. But how much he should post up depends on wh he's matched up against. He can dominate a lot of NBA centers in the post but there are some (the especially big/strong ones) he struggles against down low.
KAT's greatest strength offensively - what makes him unique - is his broad range of skills, including his 3-point shooting ball-handling, his body-control and deceptive quickness driving to the basket in just a couple strong steps.
Thibodeau fails in several ways to get the most out of Towns;
1. Posts him up too often especially against bad post-up matchups
2. Fails to maximize use of KAT's full versitile skill set
3. Poor spacing and lack of player movement around KAT in the post, allowing defenses to more easily crowd and double team him in the post
4. Not giving KAT enough touches and shots -in other words failing to run the offense enough through the Wolves best offensive player.
jake_elwood wrote:I'm not saying we shouldn't re-sign Rose. If he keeps up near this level of production, we should definitely try to. I'm not saying we shouldn't wait and see how we develop. But, moving forward with this core, SOMETHING needs to happen to make us more than a first round out for the only time besides 2004. Maybe we can strike gold in the draft. I hope so. But, when was the last "good" pick we made? KAT doesn't count. Kevin Love?
I get that people don't want to include No. 1 overall picks as "good picks" because you're typically looking for picks that were considered hidden gems or steals, but make no mistake about it, Towns was a great pick. We've seen the other side of the coin -- where No. 1 picks are busts or just never become good players. Look at Anthony Bennett, Markelle Fultz, and even Andrew Wiggins. You still don't think Towns was a good pick?
Not to mention, there were a number of posters here and draft "experts" that weren't sold on Towns being the best choice. If you remember, plenty of people had their eyes on Jahlil Okafor or D'Angelo Russell, as well as the smaller group that saw Porzingis being in the conversation.
I'll add that Lavine was clearly a good pick. I think most here are pretty happy with the Okogie selection also.
Meanwhile the idea that this is just a playoffs and our team for sure is something I don't agree with and I say that knowing there isn't a certainty we even get in. What if we get the 8th seed but we face one of the other teams not named the Warriors? What if we end up the 6th seed? What about an even higher seed? Those things are all possible. Likely? No but there is over half the season left and we are easily in the hunt we should be pushing towards making something happen here.
Derrick Rose is an example although an unusual circumstance of how you can improve your team in addition to the draft and typical free agency. You need to find some undervalued players and get something out of them and some become VERY important. Against a number of teams when healthy the bench really does some damage. This team has legit talent to win games. Meanwhile there is enough options to improve via the draft and otherwise to get this team to a higher level.
I think "in my opinion" would be more accurate than "clearly", because there are many who would disagree. In my opinion, Zach Lavine was not a good pick. He was a lottery pick, and yet he has consistently been a minus player his entire career. It's interesting to me that the Wolves got better when he got hurt two years ago, and the horrible Chicago Bulls went 3-2 in his recent injury absence including two road wins. I don't know how much more evidence we need to conclude Zach Lavine has been a far below average basketball player who doesn't help his teams win.
