Minnesota Sports Forum

I agree with Q and I have a much harsher outlook on this.

The pro is that he's doing kinda what I wanted him to do, at least with the rookies. He has 3 rookies and 2 two-way guys. That to me, are the "bites at the apple." Bringing in these other castaways and retreads only has one positive outcome, and that's if we can rehabilitate their value. I've always maintained that this organization doesn't value player development and that we should be the Oakland A's of hoops, where player development is above everything else, even if these players we develop leave and shine elsewhere. We have to give fringe players a reason to be here, and if the possibility of saving their careers is a reason, so be it.

The downside is that outside of Layman (and that's because he's here for 3 years), I'm not too invested in how Vonleh does, or Napier or Graham or Bell. Why? The odds of any of them returning regardless of their performance is slim to none. Rosas can't preach flexibility and then give these guys new deals if they play even markedly better. None of these guys overnight will become huge stars. They may have had the potential to do so, but smarter franchises than ours couldn't get it out of them. Vonleh's not gonna go from 8 and 8 to 18 and 10, and even if he did, would that be enough for Rosas to think he's found his 2nd star? No. He's gonna let some other team overpay for him and we're left trying to do this again with someone else until a 2nd star emerges, and the way I see it, it's gonna have to come from Culver, Reid, Nowell, next year's 1st and 2nd and nowhere else. It might be different if these guys were on the contract Layman was on, but right now, the hope is we're good enough to get away with starting Layman the way Portland did, but we're a ways away from the roster Portland has.

I admire the strategy, but let's be blatantly honest with ourselves, what is Rosas doing that David Kahn didn't do, especially early on? What's the difference between praying we get something out of Vonleh vs. praying we get something out of Anthony Randolph? What's the difference between churning through failed players elsewhere with Kahn vs. the strategy of churning through failed players with Rosas? All we can hope for is that Rosas has a much better eye for talent, but hey, I didn't see many people complaining about even Flynn early on. I've seen this movie before. I just don't know if this has a different ending.

Wild - Rosas has already distinguished himself from Thibodeau and Flip in that he is all-in on a long-term strategy built around young high-upside talent and salary flexibility. But you are right that the strategy doesn't differ much from David Kahn's.

As you suggested, it will come down to the Rosas regime's eye for talent.

We know that the Kahn regime was a terrible judge of talent. And that's not all hindsight. Regarding Kahn's draft picks, most of us loved the Rubio pick, but at the same time most of us did not like the Flynn pick. I recall wanting Curry with DeRozan as my second choice. I wasn't high on Flynn. He was undersized and although he was quick, he wasn't super quick and while a good shooter, he wasn't a great shooter coming out of college. One thing I noticed in the live pre-draft scrimmage I saw of Flynn was that he dribbled with his head down. I'll admit I didn't think Wes Johnson and Derrick Williams would be complete busts, but hindsight tells us Kahn blew it with both picks. Kahn's free agent signings were abysmal even without hindsight. Kahn thought Darko was still destined for greatness when he was about to move back to Europe because none of the other 29 NBA teams had any interest in him at any price. Kahn stood alone as the only PBO in the League who thought Brandon Roy was cured from some injections after he retired with no cartilage in his knees.

Kahn set the bar pretty low to say the least. So I expect Rosas to outperform Kahn, but I'll admit that's not saying much. I already think Rosas made a mistake refusing to deal Covington to get Garland with the 4th pick instead of Culver with the 6th. But I don't think that decision was as bad as Thibodeau's decision to pass on both Murray or Hield in favor of Kris Dunn or his decision to pass on John Collins for Patton. It's not as bad as Kahn's decision to pass on Curry for Flynn. And it's not as bad as Flip's decision to pass on McCollum and the Greek Freak in favor of Bazz.

As you said, Wild, the success or failure of the Rosas regime will ultimately turn on the success of Culver, Nowell, Naz Reid and the Wolves draft picks next summer. But I would add to that list Okogie and KBD.

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

The long-term organic approach is certainly riskier than it used to be back in the era of Jordan/Pippen and Stockton/Malone. But it remains the best approach for a small to mid-market franchise. It's actually essential for a smaller or mid-market franchise to begin the process by building a foundation organically, accumulating draft and young player assets, then putting the finishing touches on the team with a free agent acquisition and/or trade. Here are some recent examples of success with the longer-term organic approach:

1. Warriors - Drafted Curry, Green and Thompson as their core

2. Blazers - Drafted Lillard and McCollum as core. Traded for a 22-year old Nurkic and the Grizzlies 2017 1st round pick in exchange for Plumlee, a 2nd rounder and cash. Even with their success in the standings and playoffs, the Blazers drafted and kept Zach Collins a few years ago and more recently drafted and have kept a couple pretty high-upside 1st rounders in Anfernee Simons and Nasir Little. This summer they also signed a young high upside underachiever, 24-year old Mario Hezonja.

3. Nuggets - Drafted Murray, Jokic and Garry Harris as their core. They traded for Barton when he was still 24 years old along with a 2016 first rounder in exchange for Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee. They have continued to draft and keep high-upside prospects like Bol Bol and Michael Porter Jr. They traded a protected 2020 1st round pick, but got a still young 25-year old Jerami Grant in return.

4. Sixers - Drafted Embiid and Simmons as their core. Used accumulated draft assets and recent good high-upside picks like Shamet to acquire a still young 26-year old Tobias Harris last season before re-signing him as a free agent using cap space the organization skillfully created. Then they traded the nearly 30-year old Butler for the much younger Josh Richardson this summer - a better match age-wise for Simmons and Embiid. Meanwhile, they've head on to last season's high-upside 1st round pick Zhair Smith while also drafting Thybulle this year.

5. Celtics - Drafted Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown as their core while also drafting Marcus Smart. They drafted a high upside Romeo Langford this summer and still have extra draft picks in future years.

6. Thunder - Drafted Westbrook, Durant and Adams as their core. Durant's surprising decision to bolt supports your point about the risk of the long-term organic approach. But the Thunder had several years of high-level success before Durant left and they were still a perennial playoff team after he left with Westbrook and Adams.

Even the Raptors were a contender for years based largely on an organically formed foundation they kept together for years - drafting DeRozan and trading for Lowry when he was still young and hadn't yet become an allstar.

The Rockets have clearly taken a different approach, although drafting Capella has been an important ingredient to their recent success.

It will be interesting to see how the Lakers and Clippers do with the non-organic approach they've taken this summer. But keep in mind that it was through the accumulation of valuable young draft picks that they were both able to pull off the deals they made this summer. The Lakers were able to parlay Ingram, Ball and Hart into AD while still hanging on to Kuzma. The Clippers were able to parlay future picks and their recent pick, SGA, into Paul George.

But again, a historically successful franchise like the Rockets in a very large metro area in a warm-weather no income tax state has options an organization like the Wolves doesn't. As for the Lakers and Clippers, well ... it's LA.

In the end, it's about good judgment - regardless of the approach. We haven't seen much in the way of good judgment at 600 1st Avenue North. Maybe Rosas will be different.

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

The long-term organic approach is certainly riskier than it used to be back in the era of Jordan/Pippen and Stockton/Malone. But it remains the best approach for a small to mid-market franchise. It's actually essential for a smaller or mid-market franchise to begin the process by building a foundation organically, accumulating draft and young player assets, then putting the finishing touches on the team with a free agent acquisition and/or trade. Here are some recent examples of success with the longer-term organic approach:

1. Warriors - Drafted Curry, Green and Thompson as their core

2. Blazers - Drafted Lillard and McCollum as core. Traded for a 22-year old Nurkic and the Grizzlies 2017 1st round pick in exchange for Plumlee, a 2nd rounder and cash. Even with their success in the standings and playoffs, the Blazers drafted and kept Zach Collins a few years ago and more recently drafted and have kept a couple pretty high-upside 1st rounders in Anfernee Simons and Nasir Little. This summer they also signed a young high upside underachiever, 24-year old Mario Hezonja.

3. Nuggets - Drafted Murray, Jokic and Garry Harris as their core. They traded for Barton when he was still 24 years old along with a 2016 first rounder in exchange for Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee. They have continued to draft and keep high-upside prospects like Bol Bol and Michael Porter Jr. They traded a protected 2020 1st round pick, but got a still young 25-year old Jerami Grant in return.

4. Sixers - Drafted Embiid and Simmons as their core. Used accumulated draft assets and recent good high-upside picks like Shamet to acquire a still young 26-year old Tobias Harris last season before re-signing him as a free agent using cap space the organization skillfully created. Then they traded the nearly 30-year old Butler for the much younger Josh Richardson this summer - a better match age-wise for Simmons and Embiid. Meanwhile, they've head on to last season's high-upside 1st round pick Zhair Smith while also drafting Thybulle this year.

5. Celtics - Drafted Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown as their core while also drafting Marcus Smart. They drafted a high upside Romeo Langford this summer and still have extra draft picks in future years.

6. Thunder - Drafted Westbrook, Durant and Adams as their core. Durant's surprising decision to bolt supports your point about the risk of the long-term organic approach. But the Thunder had several years of high-level success before Durant left and they were still a perennial playoff team after he left with Westbrook and Adams.

Even the Raptors were a contender for years based largely on an organically formed foundation they kept together for years - drafting DeRozan and trading for Lowry when he was still young and hadn't yet become an allstar.

The Rockets have clearly taken a different approach, although drafting Capella has been an important ingredient to their recent success.

It will be interesting to see how the Lakers and Clippers do with the non-organic approach they've taken this summer. But keep in mind that it was through the accumulation of valuable young draft picks that they were both able to pull off the deals they made this summer. The Lakers were able to parlay Ingram, Ball and Hart into AD while still hanging on to Kuzma. The Clippers were able to parlay future picks and their recent pick, SGA, into Paul George.

But again, a historically successful franchise like the Rockets in a very large metro area in a warm-weather no income tax state has options an organization like the Wolves doesn't. As for the Lakers and Clippers, well ... it's LA.

In the end, it's about good judgment - regardless of the approach. We haven't seen much in the way of good judgment at 600 1st Avenue North. Maybe Rosas will be different.

To be fair... I don't think using examples from even three years ago can be used seamlessly today.

Furthermore, right now it's KAT + Nobody. And we're in Year 5. How patient would Lillard have been? Curry? Durant? Et al?

I'm not saying it can't work... or that it isn't still the best way... it's just more unlikely than any other time, possibly in NBA history.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

The long-term organic approach is certainly riskier than it used to be back in the era of Jordan/Pippen and Stockton/Malone. But it remains the best approach for a small to mid-market franchise. It's actually essential for a smaller or mid-market franchise to begin the process by building a foundation organically, accumulating draft and young player assets, then putting the finishing touches on the team with a free agent acquisition and/or trade. Here are some recent examples of success with the longer-term organic approach:

1. Warriors - Drafted Curry, Green and Thompson as their core

2. Blazers - Drafted Lillard and McCollum as core. Traded for a 22-year old Nurkic and the Grizzlies 2017 1st round pick in exchange for Plumlee, a 2nd rounder and cash. Even with their success in the standings and playoffs, the Blazers drafted and kept Zach Collins a few years ago and more recently drafted and have kept a couple pretty high-upside 1st rounders in Anfernee Simons and Nasir Little. This summer they also signed a young high upside underachiever, 24-year old Mario Hezonja.

3. Nuggets - Drafted Murray, Jokic and Garry Harris as their core. They traded for Barton when he was still 24 years old along with a 2016 first rounder in exchange for Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee. They have continued to draft and keep high-upside prospects like Bol Bol and Michael Porter Jr. They traded a protected 2020 1st round pick, but got a still young 25-year old Jerami Grant in return.

4. Sixers - Drafted Embiid and Simmons as their core. Used accumulated draft assets and recent good high-upside picks like Shamet to acquire a still young 26-year old Tobias Harris last season before re-signing him as a free agent using cap space the organization skillfully created. Then they traded the nearly 30-year old Butler for the much younger Josh Richardson this summer - a better match age-wise for Simmons and Embiid. Meanwhile, they've head on to last season's high-upside 1st round pick Zhair Smith while also drafting Thybulle this year.

5. Celtics - Drafted Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown as their core while also drafting Marcus Smart. They drafted a high upside Romeo Langford this summer and still have extra draft picks in future years.

6. Thunder - Drafted Westbrook, Durant and Adams as their core. Durant's surprising decision to bolt supports your point about the risk of the long-term organic approach. But the Thunder had several years of high-level success before Durant left and they were still a perennial playoff team after he left with Westbrook and Adams.

Even the Raptors were a contender for years based largely on an organically formed foundation they kept together for years - drafting DeRozan and trading for Lowry when he was still young and hadn't yet become an allstar.

The Rockets have clearly taken a different approach, although drafting Capella has been an important ingredient to their recent success.

It will be interesting to see how the Lakers and Clippers do with the non-organic approach they've taken this summer. But keep in mind that it was through the accumulation of valuable young draft picks that they were both able to pull off the deals they made this summer. The Lakers were able to parlay Ingram, Ball and Hart into AD while still hanging on to Kuzma. The Clippers were able to parlay future picks and their recent pick, SGA, into Paul George.

But again, a historically successful franchise like the Rockets in a very large metro area in a warm-weather no income tax state has options an organization like the Wolves doesn't. As for the Lakers and Clippers, well ... it's LA.

In the end, it's about good judgment - regardless of the approach. We haven't seen much in the way of good judgment at 600 1st Avenue North. Maybe Rosas will be different.

To be fair... I don't think using examples from even three years ago can be used seamlessly today.

Furthermore, right now it's KAT + Nobody. And we're in Year 5. How patient would Lillard have been? Curry? Durant? Et al?

I'm not saying it can't work... or that it isn't still the best way... it's just more unlikely than any other time, possibly in NBA history.

I think the thing that makes me about as optimistic as anything is that everyone seems to be on the same page. Glen loves relationships-Rosas seems like a guy that values that type of thing-Ryan Saunders that's supposed to be his strength and he happened to have a pretty unique relationship with Towns. Speaking of Towns he is the nice guy wanting to build this family atmosphere almost anointing with his good guy answers...which makes him feel like a Wolf in the country club sense.

Towns seems all in on this youth movement. They went after his buddy Russell even though they didn't get him. He is the center of the organization a guy that can be the guy to all his young peeps while having a couple older guys like Covington (who he seems to jive with) and Teague.

Will this all work out? Idk but it seems like people are on the same page and that seems to matter when your franchise guy could take off at some point. Meanwhile the worry is that it's a country club type thing going on. Well...Rosas already let Tyus Jones go. Gupta is a guy that is unlikely going to be married to any player and he is a big part of the front office. Rosas is clearly setting himself and the franchise up to be able to be aggressive. The reporting has been this offseason Towns was the only guy off limits. The worry is that we got to this thing too late and it won't end up working out. Maybe AD would have left or wanted to leave and play with his supposed idol Lebron regardless but it feels like if NO would have started making some decent moves like they did the last year or 2 a year earlier maybe they would have had a chance. Of course...that Cousins deal they made looks bad for them especially with Buddy looking like a really good wing player. Hopefully we don't make a similar mistake like that.

Ultimately I'm this year or year and a half there need to be a player and or coaching staff success that propels this team towards success. If that doesn't happen...we are obviously screwed...probably even if Towns decides to stay forever. We have been fooled before but it does truly seem like we have competence with the group of basketball decision makers and they have a plan...which can also be deviated from if it doesn't work. Only time will tell. I'm kind of excited about it even if I'm my optimism I'm also keeping the bar of expectations lower than it may seem.

It's also worth considering that if Towns takes some sort of big step as an all around player he could make a pretty significant impact on how good the team is night in higher out. It's possible he take a step like that this season.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

The long-term organic approach is certainly riskier than it used to be back in the era of Jordan/Pippen and Stockton/Malone. But it remains the best approach for a small to mid-market franchise. It's actually essential for a smaller or mid-market franchise to begin the process by building a foundation organically, accumulating draft and young player assets, then putting the finishing touches on the team with a free agent acquisition and/or trade. Here are some recent examples of success with the longer-term organic approach:

1. Warriors - Drafted Curry, Green and Thompson as their core

2. Blazers - Drafted Lillard and McCollum as core. Traded for a 22-year old Nurkic and the Grizzlies 2017 1st round pick in exchange for Plumlee, a 2nd rounder and cash. Even with their success in the standings and playoffs, the Blazers drafted and kept Zach Collins a few years ago and more recently drafted and have kept a couple pretty high-upside 1st rounders in Anfernee Simons and Nasir Little. This summer they also signed a young high upside underachiever, 24-year old Mario Hezonja.

3. Nuggets - Drafted Murray, Jokic and Garry Harris as their core. They traded for Barton when he was still 24 years old along with a 2016 first rounder in exchange for Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee. They have continued to draft and keep high-upside prospects like Bol Bol and Michael Porter Jr. They traded a protected 2020 1st round pick, but got a still young 25-year old Jerami Grant in return.

4. Sixers - Drafted Embiid and Simmons as their core. Used accumulated draft assets and recent good high-upside picks like Shamet to acquire a still young 26-year old Tobias Harris last season before re-signing him as a free agent using cap space the organization skillfully created. Then they traded the nearly 30-year old Butler for the much younger Josh Richardson this summer - a better match age-wise for Simmons and Embiid. Meanwhile, they've head on to last season's high-upside 1st round pick Zhair Smith while also drafting Thybulle this year.

5. Celtics - Drafted Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown as their core while also drafting Marcus Smart. They drafted a high upside Romeo Langford this summer and still have extra draft picks in future years.

6. Thunder - Drafted Westbrook, Durant and Adams as their core. Durant's surprising decision to bolt supports your point about the risk of the long-term organic approach. But the Thunder had several years of high-level success before Durant left and they were still a perennial playoff team after he left with Westbrook and Adams.

Even the Raptors were a contender for years based largely on an organically formed foundation they kept together for years - drafting DeRozan and trading for Lowry when he was still young and hadn't yet become an allstar.

The Rockets have clearly taken a different approach, although drafting Capella has been an important ingredient to their recent success.

It will be interesting to see how the Lakers and Clippers do with the non-organic approach they've taken this summer. But keep in mind that it was through the accumulation of valuable young draft picks that they were both able to pull off the deals they made this summer. The Lakers were able to parlay Ingram, Ball and Hart into AD while still hanging on to Kuzma. The Clippers were able to parlay future picks and their recent pick, SGA, into Paul George.

But again, a historically successful franchise like the Rockets in a very large metro area in a warm-weather no income tax state has options an organization like the Wolves doesn't. As for the Lakers and Clippers, well ... it's LA.

In the end, it's about good judgment - regardless of the approach. We haven't seen much in the way of good judgment at 600 1st Avenue North. Maybe Rosas will be different.

To be fair... I don't think using examples from even three years ago can be used seamlessly today.

Furthermore, right now it's KAT + Nobody. And we're in Year 5. How patient would Lillard have been? Curry? Durant? Et al?

I'm not saying it can't work... or that it isn't still the best way... it's just more unlikely than any other time, possibly in NBA history.

I think the thing that makes me about as optimistic as anything is that everyone seems to be on the same page. Glen loves relationships-Rosas seems like a guy that values that type of thing-Ryan Saunders that's supposed to be his strength and he happened to have a pretty unique relationship with Towns. Speaking of Towns he is the nice guy wanting to build this family atmosphere almost anointing with his good guy answers...which makes him feel like a Wolf in the country club sense.

Towns seems all in on this youth movement. They went after his buddy Russell even though they didn't get him. He is the center of the organization a guy that can be the guy to all his young peeps while having a couple older guys like Covington (who he seems to jive with) and Teague.

Will this all work out? Idk but it seems like people are on the same page and that seems to matter when your franchise guy could take off at some point. Meanwhile the worry is that it's a country club type thing going on. Well...Rosas already let Tyus Jones go. Gupta is a guy that is unlikely going to be married to any player and he is a big part of the front office. Rosas is clearly setting himself and the franchise up to be able to be aggressive. The reporting has been this offseason Towns was the only guy off limits. The worry is that we got to this thing too late and it won't end up working out. Maybe AD would have left or wanted to leave and play with his supposed idol Lebron regardless but it feels like if NO would have started making some decent moves like they did the last year or 2 a year earlier maybe they would have had a chance. Of course...that Cousins deal they made looks bad for them especially with Buddy looking like a really good wing player. Hopefully we don't make a similar mistake like that.

Ultimately I'm this year or year and a half there need to be a player and or coaching staff success that propels this team towards success. If that doesn't happen...we are obviously screwed...probably even if Towns decides to stay forever. We have been fooled before but it does truly seem like we have competence with the group of basketball decision makers and they have a plan...which can also be deviated from if it doesn't work. Only time will tell. I'm kind of excited about it even if I'm my optimism I'm also keeping the bar of expectations lower than it may seem.

It's also worth considering that if Towns takes some sort of big step as an all around player he could make a pretty significant impact on how good the team is night in higher out. It's possible he take a step like that this season.

There have been 21 All NBA players in the last 2 years, 11 of them have switched teams from the start of the 2017-18 season. Over 50% of the best players in the NBA have switched teams. The NBA is changing. Anthony Davis got out of his contract with 2 years remaining. Paul George got out of his contract 1 year after signing a 4 year contract.

The NBA is different now. Kat being on the Wolves cost him an All NBA spot this year causing him not to get the Super Max. Now Kat says all the right things but so did Paul George, so did Kawhi, so did Anthony Davis, so did Jimmy Butler, so did Kyrie Irving until they wanted out and they got out with ease at every spot.

We are looking at year 4 of 5 that Kat won't make the playoffs as a wolf and the year we did make it we were an 8 seed (only 3 games out of the 3 seed) and he massively struggled. If you look at the wolves roster we are really banking on Culver being a stud because if he isn't it doesn't look like we have another stud on our roster to pair with Kat. I am not even saying it would have been the best option but we couldn't even bring in Kat's best friend.

The NBA is changing, will Kat ask out with 4 years left on his contract, who knows, I mean Porzingis asked out in his rookie deal. NBA is different, and I hope whatever Rosas has planned is successful because this new NBA really hurts teams like the Wolves.

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

To be fair... I don't think using examples from even three years ago can be used seamlessly today.

Furthermore, right now it's KAT + Nobody. And we're in Year 5. How patient would Lillard have been? Curry? Durant? Et al?

I'm not saying it can't work... or that it isn't still the best way... it's just more unlikely than any other time, possibly in NBA history.

I think the thing that makes me about as optimistic as anything is that everyone seems to be on the same page. Glen loves relationships-Rosas seems like a guy that values that type of thing-Ryan Saunders that's supposed to be his strength and he happened to have a pretty unique relationship with Towns. Speaking of Towns he is the nice guy wanting to build this family atmosphere almost anointing with his good guy answers...which makes him feel like a Wolf in the country club sense.

Towns seems all in on this youth movement. They went after his buddy Russell even though they didn't get him. He is the center of the organization a guy that can be the guy to all his young peeps while having a couple older guys like Covington (who he seems to jive with) and Teague.

Will this all work out? Idk but it seems like people are on the same page and that seems to matter when your franchise guy could take off at some point. Meanwhile the worry is that it's a country club type thing going on. Well...Rosas already let Tyus Jones go. Gupta is a guy that is unlikely going to be married to any player and he is a big part of the front office. Rosas is clearly setting himself and the franchise up to be able to be aggressive. The reporting has been this offseason Towns was the only guy off limits. The worry is that we got to this thing too late and it won't end up working out. Maybe AD would have left or wanted to leave and play with his supposed idol Lebron regardless but it feels like if NO would have started making some decent moves like they did the last year or 2 a year earlier maybe they would have had a chance. Of course...that Cousins deal they made looks bad for them especially with Buddy looking like a really good wing player. Hopefully we don't make a similar mistake like that.

Ultimately I'm this year or year and a half there need to be a player and or coaching staff success that propels this team towards success. If that doesn't happen...we are obviously screwed...probably even if Towns decides to stay forever. We have been fooled before but it does truly seem like we have competence with the group of basketball decision makers and they have a plan...which can also be deviated from if it doesn't work. Only time will tell. I'm kind of excited about it even if I'm my optimism I'm also keeping the bar of expectations lower than it may seem.

It's also worth considering that if Towns takes some sort of big step as an all around player he could make a pretty significant impact on how good the team is night in higher out. It's possible he take a step like that this season.

There have been 21 All NBA players in the last 2 years, 11 of them have switched teams from the start of the 2017-18 season. Over 50% of the best players in the NBA have switched teams. The NBA is changing. Anthony Davis got out of his contract with 2 years remaining. Paul George got out of his contract 1 year after signing a 4 year contract.

The NBA is different now. Kat being on the Wolves cost him an All NBA spot this year causing him not to get the Super Max. Now Kat says all the right things but so did Paul George, so did Kawhi, so did Anthony Davis, so did Jimmy Butler, so did Kyrie Irving until they wanted out and they got out with ease at every spot.

We are looking at year 4 of 5 that Kat won't make the playoffs as a wolf and the year we did make it we were an 8 seed (only 3 games out of the 3 seed) and he massively struggled. If you look at the wolves roster we are really banking on Culver being a stud because if he isn't it doesn't look like we have another stud on our roster to pair with Kat. I am not even saying it would have been the best option but we couldn't even bring in Kat's best friend.

The NBA is changing, will Kat ask out with 4 years left on his contract, who knows, I mean Porzingis asked out in his rookie deal. NBA is different, and I hope whatever Rosas has planned is successful because this new NBA really hurts teams like the Wolves.

"It's more than just loyalty, it's about doing what I think is right. I feel this is the best and perfect opportunity to cement myself and bring a championship where it hasn't been brought. They've welcomed me with open arms, and I want them to feel that hype that I have toward what I think we can accomplish there. I want to be part of something that's special and something that I've created. I think there is something I can create here.

Aside from being one of the best human beings I've been around, [teammate's name]'s approach to the game is what guys who want to be a part of and build something with. [He] is somebody I can win with and vice versa. So I think with this decision, that makes me much more comfortable knowing I got a shot and a real chance to win with one of the best players in the league.

I'm happy. I'm more than happy. This is the city and community I chose, and the place I decided to play. And I'm excited. I'm excited to go along this journey and really go all in on this experience."
_____

That player requested a trade less than a year later... after a playoff run.

Words from pro athletes are mostly meaningless. But here's what we actually know...

- The Wolves being the Wolves directly caused KAT to miss out on All NBA... and tens of millions of dollars. (many voters publicly stated that W/L record was a direct reason.)
- 11 of the 21 All NBA players the past two seasons have changed teams. I believe Kemba Walker is the only non-playoff guy in the bunch.
- The Wolves are not expected to compete for the playoffs this season.

I know we wouldn't be here just to read doom and gloom stuff. We all have hopes, to varying degrees. That's what makes sports so much fun. Without it... yikes.

But I'm just saying that there are few tangible reasons to count any chickens just yet.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:Golden State is scrambling to recover from an injury to one great player and figuring out how to move on from one of the best players in the league of all time. And yet here we are trying to figure out how we can be competitive with them. That's fucked up

And actually, the Wolves don't seem to be aiming at being competitive with the Warriors this upcoming season. Instead, the Wolves appear to be looking at becoming a championship contender a few years down the road when KAT will be entering his prime and Curry will be on the downward slope of his career. The prospects of that happening will depend a lot of the development of Culver, Okogie, KBD, Nowell and the young free agents signed this summer along with future draft picks and trades by the Wolves over the next two years.

To be fair, in this age of player entitlement... it's a riskier-than-normal plan.

The way we grew up watching/following the NBA is changing as we've all seen. There are no guarantees from year to year, so to assume anything years down the line with individual players is dicey. Unfortunately.

To be fair... I don't think using examples from even three years ago can be used seamlessly today.

Furthermore, right now it's KAT + Nobody. And we're in Year 5. How patient would Lillard have been? Curry? Durant? Et al?

I'm not saying it can't work... or that it isn't still the best way... it's just more unlikely than any other time, possibly in NBA history.

I think the thing that makes me about as optimistic as anything is that everyone seems to be on the same page. Glen loves relationships-Rosas seems like a guy that values that type of thing-Ryan Saunders that's supposed to be his strength and he happened to have a pretty unique relationship with Towns. Speaking of Towns he is the nice guy wanting to build this family atmosphere almost anointing with his good guy answers...which makes him feel like a Wolf in the country club sense.

Towns seems all in on this youth movement. They went after his buddy Russell even though they didn't get him. He is the center of the organization a guy that can be the guy to all his young peeps while having a couple older guys like Covington (who he seems to jive with) and Teague.

Will this all work out? Idk but it seems like people are on the same page and that seems to matter when your franchise guy could take off at some point. Meanwhile the worry is that it's a country club type thing going on. Well...Rosas already let Tyus Jones go. Gupta is a guy that is unlikely going to be married to any player and he is a big part of the front office. Rosas is clearly setting himself and the franchise up to be able to be aggressive. The reporting has been this offseason Towns was the only guy off limits. The worry is that we got to this thing too late and it won't end up working out. Maybe AD would have left or wanted to leave and play with his supposed idol Lebron regardless but it feels like if NO would have started making some decent moves like they did the last year or 2 a year earlier maybe they would have had a chance. Of course...that Cousins deal they made looks bad for them especially with Buddy looking like a really good wing player. Hopefully we don't make a similar mistake like that.

Ultimately I'm this year or year and a half there need to be a player and or coaching staff success that propels this team towards success. If that doesn't happen...we are obviously screwed...probably even if Towns decides to stay forever. We have been fooled before but it does truly seem like we have competence with the group of basketball decision makers and they have a plan...which can also be deviated from if it doesn't work. Only time will tell. I'm kind of excited about it even if I'm my optimism I'm also keeping the bar of expectations lower than it may seem.

It's also worth considering that if Towns takes some sort of big step as an all around player he could make a pretty significant impact on how good the team is night in higher out. It's possible he take a step like that this season.

There have been 21 All NBA players in the last 2 years, 11 of them have switched teams from the start of the 2017-18 season. Over 50% of the best players in the NBA have switched teams. The NBA is changing. Anthony Davis got out of his contract with 2 years remaining. Paul George got out of his contract 1 year after signing a 4 year contract.

The NBA is different now. Kat being on the Wolves cost him an All NBA spot this year causing him not to get the Super Max. Now Kat says all the right things but so did Paul George, so did Kawhi, so did Anthony Davis, so did Jimmy Butler, so did Kyrie Irving until they wanted out and they got out with ease at every spot.

We are looking at year 4 of 5 that Kat won't make the playoffs as a wolf and the year we did make it we were an 8 seed (only 3 games out of the 3 seed) and he massively struggled. If you look at the wolves roster we are really banking on Culver being a stud because if he isn't it doesn't look like we have another stud on our roster to pair with Kat. I am not even saying it would have been the best option but we couldn't even bring in Kat's best friend.

The NBA is changing, will Kat ask out with 4 years left on his contract, who knows, I mean Porzingis asked out in his rookie deal. NBA is different, and I hope whatever Rosas has planned is successful because this new NBA really hurts teams like the Wolves.

"It's more than just loyalty, it's about doing what I think is right. I feel this is the best and perfect opportunity to cement myself and bring a championship where it hasn't been brought. They've welcomed me with open arms, and I want them to feel that hype that I have toward what I think we can accomplish there. I want to be part of something that's special and something that I've created. I think there is something I can create here.

Aside from being one of the best human beings I've been around, [teammate's name]'s approach to the game is what guys who want to be a part of and build something with. [He] is somebody I can win with and vice versa. So I think with this decision, that makes me much more comfortable knowing I got a shot and a real chance to win with one of the best players in the league.

I'm happy. I'm more than happy. This is the city and community I chose, and the place I decided to play. And I'm excited. I'm excited to go along this journey and really go all in on this experience."
_____

That player requested a trade less than a year later... after a playoff run.

Words from pro athletes are mostly meaningless. But here's what we actually know...

- The Wolves being the Wolves directly caused KAT to miss out on All NBA... and tens of millions of dollars. (many voters publicly stated that W/L record was a direct reason.)
- 11 of the 21 All NBA players the past two seasons have changed teams. I believe Kemba Walker is the only non-playoff guy in the bunch.
- The Wolves are not expected to compete for the playoffs this season.

I know we wouldn't be here just to read doom and gloom stuff. We all have hopes, to varying degrees. That's what makes sports so much fun. Without it... yikes.

But I'm just saying that there are few tangible reasons to count any chickens just yet.

Of course KAT could eventually express his desire to leave. Of course, nothing is certain and players are more inclined to move than they used to be. But they don't all leave. Apparently 10 of 21 have stayed in the last two years. KAT is on the front end of a 5 year deal. That doesn't mean he won't ask out before the 4th or 5th year. But he wants to be the guy around whom a team is built and he considers this his team. So the Wolves probably have 3 years to get this thing on track with KAT. Even AD waited until his second to last year in his contract to ask out. Paul George had to be courted heavily by Kawhi after already rebuffing the Lakers the previous year.

In any event, the Wolves don't have a choice. There is no quick fix for this franchise. We don't have cap room or valuable trade chips other than KAT and perhaps Covington. We're not a storied franchise or a destination city. So the Wolves have to draft well and find young underachieving high upside talent and develop them. We finally have a front office executive who understands that. He's fortunate to have a young elite talent like KAT to build around on the front end of a 5-year deal. But the success of the Rosas regime will ultimately depend on the player personnel judgments Rosas and his front office team make over the next couple years, including the ones they've already made this summer adding young players via the draft and other means and hiring a coaching staff with player development credentials. Again, the Wolves don't have viable alternatives to building for the longer term around KAT with draft picks and the acquisition of cheap young talent that could break through in year 4 or 5 like Oladipo, Chauncey Billups and Kyle Lowry among others. Is that strategy as more challenging that it used to be 20 or even 10 years ago? Of course it is. But the examples I gave show that it still works in today's era.

If you want Hope could we think we could be the next Nets type franchise? Sean Marks got the job in February of 2016 and it was a terrible job no draft picks cap hell limited talent etc. They built a playoff team and made themselves attractive enough to get 2 max level players to come there. They had and still have an embarrassment of riches of lead guard types. They did all this despite never picking in the lottery. Their highest draft pick during that time was #20 Caris Lavert with the pick they got for Thad Young. It will be interesting to see how things work out now and it's possible they lose more players as they will be paying all that money to Kyrie Durant and deandre Jordon for the next few years. They would have had to make some decisions on how much to pay guys soon anyway so...yeah. Dane Moore Has suggested Lavert as a guy that may be worth being a guy the wolves Could pursue for their next target.