Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Kekgeek, It's not that simple. The players and Coach/GM are very intertwined at this point. Sure, we can blame the players, but Thibs is the one that kept them on the roster (or signed them) and he is the one preparing them to play night in and night out. His fingerprints are all over this thing.

I have always believed that coaches can impact defense more than offense. On that front, he deserves a D or C at best. This team hardly changed from the sieves they've been the two prior seasons. He's going to need to bring in some guys that buy what he's selling, because the current crew bought it for about 3 weeks and then moved on.

Thibs fingerprints are barely on this team. Dunn and Rush now that Lavine is hurt are the only players playing significant minutes that Thibs brought in. Everyone else that's playing was inherited. This team still isn't playing the defense a Thibs coached team should play. This isn't his team yet. How's he supposed to cut guys before they play a game for him to see if they fit? That makes no sense that this team instantly has his fingerprints on it because he chose to keep guys around he never brought in. His fingerprints won't fully be on this team for probably another year or two.

Remember, he's the coach too! He's had this crew since before training camp, going all the way back to summer league. So are you saying only the POBO can impact a team's performance and the coach has nothing to do with it?

Again, I give him a C at best in his full capacity of POBO/Head coach. This team woefully under-performed the expectations of everyone on this board (including you) AND the sober-minded quants in Vegas.

So that's it? He gets a training camp and because his team didn't adapt immediately to his system and style of play he gets knocked? I'm saying the coach should get a season pass to get his system in place with a really young team and the POBO should get a season pass because most of the team are not guys he brought in and he needed to see what he had before he made educated decisions on how to move forward with the franchise. You're expectations were just too high and misguided and that has you giving him a wildly mediocre grade. I frankly think it's ridiculous that you expect a training camp to be enough for a coach to get his system and style of play engrained into such a young team who are on their 3rd coach in 3 years. I've said for months the expectations were just bad for this team. That shouldn't all be on the coach and POBO. His young team didn't take a big step everyone expected when they were really putting the cart before the horse crowning our Big 3 before they played like a real Big 3. Think about it. Everyone thought an NBA sophomore would lead this team to 40+ wins. How stupid is that? Who's the last Sophomore to be the best player on their team and take them to the playoffs? LeBron? Towns is nowhere near that level or impact.

Jesus Khans I'm not suggesting we tar and feather Thibs and run him out of town on the next Greyhound bus! Settle down a bit.....And try paragraph breaks, as it would make your posts easier to read.

New coaches without GM authority architect fairly dramatic defensive turnarounds on a semi-regular basis. It's not unheard of you know. Considering that Thibs is widely considered one of the best defensive minds of his generation, you would think seeing a little more improvement in that area would be a reasonable expectation.

As for your rant on KAT the Sophomore, aren't you forgetting about Wiggins, the Junior? And pray tell, since you seem to be so befuddled by the idiocy of those that predicted 40+ wins, why is it that you predicted the team would win 44 wins? If anyone should be giving Coach Thibs a C, it's you!

Q12543 wrote:Jesus Khans I'm not suggesting we tar and feather Thibs and run him out of town on the next Greyhound bus! Settle down a bit.....And try paragraph breaks, as it would make your posts easier to read.

New coaches without GM authority architect fairly dramatic defensive turnarounds on a semi-regular basis. It's not unheard of you know. Considering that Thibs is widely considered one of the best defensive minds of his generation, you would think seeing a little more improvement in that area would be a reasonable expectation.

As for your rant on KAT the Sophomore, aren't you forgetting about Wiggins, the Junior? And pray tell, since you seem to be so befuddled by the idiocy of those that predicted 40+ wins, why is it that you predicted the team would win 44 wins? If anyone should be giving Coach Thibs a C, it's you!

Please enlighten us who the other 21 and 22 year olds are in the league who are currently carrying their team to a playoff berth this year. Please enlighten us where these defensive transformations have happened that had 3 players 26 or older and the rest of the core players under that age group.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jesus Khans I'm not suggesting we tar and feather Thibs and run him out of town on the next Greyhound bus! Settle down a bit.....And try paragraph breaks, as it would make your posts easier to read.

New coaches without GM authority architect fairly dramatic defensive turnarounds on a semi-regular basis. It's not unheard of you know. Considering that Thibs is widely considered one of the best defensive minds of his generation, you would think seeing a little more improvement in that area would be a reasonable expectation.

As for your rant on KAT the Sophomore, aren't you forgetting about Wiggins, the Junior? And pray tell, since you seem to be so befuddled by the idiocy of those that predicted 40+ wins, why is it that you predicted the team would win 44 wins? If anyone should be giving Coach Thibs a C, it's you!

Please enlighten us who the other 21 and 22 year olds are in the league who are currently carrying their team to a playoff berth this year. Please enlighten us where these defensive transformations have happened that had 3 players 26 or older and the rest of the core players under that age group.

Please enlighten me as to why you predicted 44 wins for this team if this is all so plainly obvious to you!

I wasn't expecting a defensive transformation, but I was expecting some nice improvement.

Coach/POBO Thibs: Grade C.....at best.

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jesus Khans I'm not suggesting we tar and feather Thibs and run him out of town on the next Greyhound bus! Settle down a bit.....And try paragraph breaks, as it would make your posts easier to read.

New coaches without GM authority architect fairly dramatic defensive turnarounds on a semi-regular basis. It's not unheard of you know. Considering that Thibs is widely considered one of the best defensive minds of his generation, you would think seeing a little more improvement in that area would be a reasonable expectation.

As for your rant on KAT the Sophomore, aren't you forgetting about Wiggins, the Junior? And pray tell, since you seem to be so befuddled by the idiocy of those that predicted 40+ wins, why is it that you predicted the team would win 44 wins? If anyone should be giving Coach Thibs a C, it's you!

Please enlighten us who the other 21 and 22 year olds are in the league who are currently carrying their team to a playoff berth this year. Please enlighten us where these defensive transformations have happened that had 3 players 26 or older and the rest of the core players under that age group.

Please enlighten me as to why you predicted 44 wins for this team if this is all so plainly obvious to you!

I wasn't expecting a defensive transformation, but I was expecting some nice improvement.

Coach/POBO Thibs: Grade C.....at best.

I guess I thought Towns would give a shit defensively and be the two way player he was drafted to be and not the stat hunter who plays zero defense that he is. It's called hindsight is 20/20. If you are still sticking to your guns that 2 21 year olds should have carried us to over 40 wins this year because they got a new coach then you are just ignorant and obviously don't reflect on why things go wrong and learn from them. You'd rather play the blame game completely guessing how much of an impact Thibs had on the team than rationalize what happened and understand why it happened. Any rational person using hindsight can see the problems on this team and understand why this team fell short this year of expectations. Nobody knows how to play team defense, we have nobody reliable on the bench yet again and 2 guys carried a majority of the offensive load all year long.

If Thibs gets a C, does Mike Malone get a C for getting a veteran Denver team to win only 3 games more than last year so far? What about Joeger winning 3 less games so far than last years team? Vogel is 8 games worse than last year with more veteran players than we have in Orlando. Memphis is the exact same. LA is 5 games better and still only at 22 total wins as a team and they added a ton of veteran help to that team. Hornacek is 3 games worse. Indiana is 8 games worse. The only 2 successful new coaches are D'Antonio who has an MVP candidate on his team and Brooks who has an All-Start backcourt. So who are these fantastic coaches we could have added instead of Thibs to get us better results with this team?

I'm not reading anyone putting 100% of the blame on the coach or absolving the players of 100% responsibility. But at the end of the day, the Coach usually bear the brunt of the responsibility (right or wrong). NBA coaches just don't get 5+ years to turn things around. They usually get 1 or 2 before they are fired. You can see that in our own Wolves coaching history:

Musselman - 2 years then fired
Rogers - 1.5 years then fired.
Lowe - 1.5 years then fired.
Blair - 1.5 years then fired.
Casey - 1.5 years then fired.
Wittman - 1.5 years then fired.
Rambis - 2 years then fired.
Mitchell - 1 year then fired.

I think there will be plenty of pressure for Thibbs to win next year IMO. Yes, the core are still young. But that excuse didn't buy Mitchell more time. It's why I believe some young pieces will be moved for vets. Coaches have to win to keep their jobs.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Jesus Khans I'm not suggesting we tar and feather Thibs and run him out of town on the next Greyhound bus! Settle down a bit.....And try paragraph breaks, as it would make your posts easier to read.

New coaches without GM authority architect fairly dramatic defensive turnarounds on a semi-regular basis. It's not unheard of you know. Considering that Thibs is widely considered one of the best defensive minds of his generation, you would think seeing a little more improvement in that area would be a reasonable expectation.

As for your rant on KAT the Sophomore, aren't you forgetting about Wiggins, the Junior? And pray tell, since you seem to be so befuddled by the idiocy of those that predicted 40+ wins, why is it that you predicted the team would win 44 wins? If anyone should be giving Coach Thibs a C, it's you!

Please enlighten us who the other 21 and 22 year olds are in the league who are currently carrying their team to a playoff berth this year. Please enlighten us where these defensive transformations have happened that had 3 players 26 or older and the rest of the core players under that age group.

Please enlighten me as to why you predicted 44 wins for this team if this is all so plainly obvious to you!

I wasn't expecting a defensive transformation, but I was expecting some nice improvement.

Coach/POBO Thibs: Grade C.....at best.

I guess I thought Towns would give a shit defensively and be the two way player he was drafted to be and not the stat hunter who plays zero defense that he is. It's called hindsight is 20/20. If you are still sticking to your guns that 2 21 year olds should have carried us to over 40 wins this year because they got a new coach then you are just ignorant and obviously don't reflect on why things go wrong and learn from them. You'd rather play the blame game completely guessing how much of an impact Thibs had on the team than rationalize what happened and understand why it happened. Any rational person using hindsight can see the problems on this team and understand why this team fell short this year of expectations. Nobody knows how to play team defense, we have nobody reliable on the bench yet again and 2 guys carried a majority of the offensive load all year long.

If Thibs gets a C, does Mike Malone get a C for getting a veteran Denver team to win only 3 games more than last year so far? What about Joeger winning 3 less games so far than last years team? Vogel is 8 games worse than last year with more veteran players than we have in Orlando. Memphis is the exact same. LA is 5 games better and still only at 22 total wins as a team and they added a ton of veteran help to that team. Hornacek is 3 games worse. Indiana is 8 games worse. The only 2 successful new coaches are D'Antonio who has an MVP candidate on his team and Brooks who has an All-Start backcourt. So who are these fantastic coaches we could have added instead of Thibs to get us better results with this team?

Yes, any coach that took over a mostly in tact roster and did worse deserves a C or worse! That doesn't mean they are permanently branded as a terrible coach. I got an F once on an accounting exam, but rallied to end up with a B in the class. I'm proud of that B. In fact, it brings a tear to my eye to think about that B right now....

I'll tell you what Khans, we'll have our lawyers settle this since you and I clearly can't agree that Thibs deserves a (mythical) C grade. I nominate the distinguished judge Longstrangetrip to be the arbiter of our dispute.

Carlos Danger wrote:I'm not reading anyone putting 100% of the blame on the coach or absolving the players of 100% responsibility. But at the end of the day, the Coach usually bear the brunt of the responsibility (right or wrong). NBA coaches just don't get 5+ years to turn things around. They usually get 1 or 2 before they are fired. You can see that in our own Wolves coaching history:

Musselman - 2 years then fired
Rogers - 1.5 years then fired.
Lowe - 1.5 years then fired.
Blair - 1.5 years then fired.
Casey - 1.5 years then fired.
Wittman - 1.5 years then fired.
Rambis - 2 years then fired.
Mitchell - 1 year then fired.

I think there will be plenty of pressure for Thibbs to win next year IMO. Yes, the core are still young. But that excuse didn't buy Mitchell more time. It's why I believe some young pieces will be moved for vets. Coaches have to win to keep their jobs.

Exactly Carlos. I give Thibs a C in a season his team woefully underperforms the Vegas oddsmakers and Khansy here goes off the deep end! Heck, back in my day a C grade meant you passed your class and avoided summer school. We've gone soft!

C is a very fair grade for Thibs as head coach. Thibs took over what he called "the best young roster in the NBA" and ended up coaching the team to essentially the same record as last season in spite of last season's strong finish. If, as some of us suspect, Thibs made coaching decisions he knew would jeopardize the team's chances of winning games this season for sake of long-term improvement, then he may have sewn the seeds for a much higher grade next season. I hope that's true. If not, Glen hired the wrong guy.

I know Q's C grade applies to Thibs in his combined role as PBO and head coach. But I would limit the C grade to his role as head coach.

I'd actually give him a B as PBO. I give him credit in that role for taking the long view and not making any rash boneheaded short-term deals. I'm a bit down on him for drafting Dunn over Hield, but I can't fault him a lot for that given how those two players were generally ranked at the time and given Dunn's defensive potential. I thought the Rush and Aldrich additions looked good on paper. I liked that he locked in Gorgui long-term on a very reasonable contract. He preserved cap flexibility to make moves this summer now that he has a better of idea of what this team needs. Not spectacular, but very solid performance as PBO in my view.

The Wolves were a dysfunctional team with 4 coaches in 4 years, with a similar pattern not too long before that. I'm not sure why we are using our ineptitude as a benchmark to judge Thibs. Seems foolish to imply that since we only gave our subpar coaching hires 1 maybe 2 years max that we should hold easily our most profile coaching hire in team history to that timeline as well. I also feel like a lot of the anger towards Thibs is because he didn't try to win now, didn't spend our cap last offseason, forcing Wiggins and Lavine to initiate at the cost of wins early on. He may not have done things at the pace you preferred but he hasn't done a single thing wrong yet, he has all the proverbial bullets asset-wise in his chamber going forward