Minnesota Sports Forum

wow this loss tonight was huge! potential 9th to tied for 6th what a great position to be in

BloopOracle wrote:wow this loss tonight was huge! potential 9th to tied for 6th what a great position to be in

Meh. Other than landing KAT, when has our draft position ever meant a hill of beans worth of difference to this squad? My God, we have churned through more lottery picks than you can shake a stick at, all for naught. You and TeamRicky are making way too big of a deal over this.

A closing post-script based on tonight's game. Our great defensive hope started at PG tonight and guess what -- we gave up 123 points. Although Dunn did log 16 assists.

I missed the game so I'm relying entirely on the box score. But it's a familiar box score showing KAT to be the only critical "build-around" player on this roster. 28 points and 21 rebounds. But that's not just tonight. Put KAT in the line up and he'll give you 25 points and over 12 boards nearly every single game along with nearly 3 assists and at least 1 block. And his scoring is always efficient. He shot 54% from the field and was among the better 3-point shooters in the League at 36.2%. I know he needs a lot of work on his defense, but there's no denying he's a force offensively and on the boards. And remember that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense.

I've stated that I want to keep our entire core together, including Wiggins, Gorgui, Zach and Ricky. I stand by that, but there is only one guy on this roster I would absolutely positively not trade and that's KAT. Among the rest of the core guys I mentioned, here's how I rank them from least inclined to trade to most willing to trade (although I wouldn't try to trade any of them):

1. Gorgui -- The ultimate glue guy. Amazingly consistent and way underrated by many.

2. Zach - Assumign he comes back healthy, I still love his upside. With his 3-point shooting and ball-handling I see him as a potentially more complete player than Wiggins.

3. Ricky -- The only guy other than Gorgui who will take a charge and who will play with heart and fire in his belly on both ends of the court every single minute he's on the court. His recent improvement in his shooting vaults him ahead of Wiggins on my "reluctant to trade" list.

4. Wiggins -- A tremendous talent who has reached a point in his career where it's hard to see him as anything more than a great scorer who is somewhat streaky and not always engaged emotionally. He could still be more and I definitely don't think we should actively shop him. But I'd be all ears for the right offer.

Q12543 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:wow this loss tonight was huge! potential 9th to tied for 6th what a great position to be in

Meh. Other than landing KAT, when has our draft position ever meant a hill of beans worth of difference to this squad? My God, we have churned through more lottery picks than you can shake a stick at, all for naught. You and TeamRicky are making way too big of a deal over this.

Sounds like you're giving up based on our past, not me though

BloopOracle wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:wow this loss tonight was huge! potential 9th to tied for 6th what a great position to be in

Meh. Other than landing KAT, when has our draft position ever meant a hill of beans worth of difference to this squad? My God, we have churned through more lottery picks than you can shake a stick at, all for naught. You and TeamRicky are making way too big of a deal over this.

Sounds like you're giving up based on our past, not me though

Here's the irony. You are accusing me of giving up when you have been actively rooting for a team to give up just so that they can move up a couple spots in the annual crap shoot. That's the kind of losing mentality that has permeated the Wolves organization for over a decade now. Yes, I gave up on actively rooting for losing.

lipoli390 wrote:A closing post-script based on tonight's game. Our great defensive hope started at PG tonight and guess what -- we gave up 123 points. Although Dunn did log 16 assists.

I missed the game so I'm relying entirely on the box score. But it's a familiar box score showing KAT to be the only critical "build-around" player on this roster. 28 points and 21 rebounds. But that's not just tonight. Put KAT in the line up and he'll give you 25 points and over 12 boards nearly every single game along with nearly 3 assists and at least 1 block. And his scoring is always efficient. He shot 54% from the field and was among the better 3-point shooters in the League at 36.2%. I know he needs a lot of work on his defense, but there's no denying he's a force offensively and on the boards. And remember that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense.

I've stated that I want to keep our entire core together, including Wiggins, Gorgui, Zach and Ricky. I stand by that, but there is only one guy on this roster I would absolutely positively not trade and that's KAT. Among the rest of the core guys I mentioned, here's how I rank them from least inclined to trade to most willing to trade (although I wouldn't try to trade any of them):

1. Gorgui -- The ultimate glue guy. Amazingly consistent and way underrated by many.

2. Zach - Assumign he comes back healthy, I still love his upside. With his 3-point shooting and ball-handling I see him as a potentially more complete player than Wiggins.

3. Ricky -- The only guy other than Gorgui who will take a charge and who will play with heart and fire in his belly on both ends of the court every single minute he's on the court. His recent improvement in his shooting vaults him ahead of Wiggins on my "reluctant to trade" list.

4. Wiggins -- A tremendous talent who has reached a point in his career where it's hard to see him as anything more than a great scorer who is somewhat streaky and not always engaged emotionally. He could still be more and I definitely don't think we should actively shop him. But I'd be all ears for the right offer.

I think if we put ourselves in Thibs' shoes, he's probably absolutely not going to trade Wiggins or KAT, even though I agree with you, I'd absolutely listen to offers for Wiggins.

To me, other than those two, everything is going to be completely re-evaluated and up for discussion by Thibs and Company. Now I certainly don't see them trading all the other guys you mentioned, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of them gone.

Q12543 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:wow this loss tonight was huge! potential 9th to tied for 6th what a great position to be in

Meh. Other than landing KAT, when has our draft position ever meant a hill of beans worth of difference to this squad? My God, we have churned through more lottery picks than you can shake a stick at, all for naught. You and TeamRicky are making way too big of a deal over this.

Sounds like you're giving up based on our past, not me though

Here's the irony. You are accusing me of giving up when you have been actively rooting for a team to give up just so that they can move up a couple spots in the annual crap shoot. That's the kind of losing mentality that has permeated the Wolves organization for over a decade now. Yes, I gave up on actively rooting for losing.

Yes I gave up on pointless end of season games for a better draft pick to help our future.I don't see whats ironic about that, dumb comparison. If you wants to have a pessemistic view on the draft thats cool but I don't know why youre wording it like youve had an intelligent epiphany.

lipoli390 wrote:A closing post-script based on tonight's game. Our great defensive hope started at PG tonight and guess what -- we gave up 123 points. Although Dunn did log 16 assists.

I missed the game so I'm relying entirely on the box score. But it's a familiar box score showing KAT to be the only critical "build-around" player on this roster. 28 points and 21 rebounds. But that's not just tonight. Put KAT in the line up and he'll give you 25 points and over 12 boards nearly every single game along with nearly 3 assists and at least 1 block. And his scoring is always efficient. He shot 54% from the field and was among the better 3-point shooters in the League at 36.2%. I know he needs a lot of work on his defense, but there's no denying he's a force offensively and on the boards. And remember that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense.

I've stated that I want to keep our entire core together, including Wiggins, Gorgui, Zach and Ricky. I stand by that, but there is only one guy on this roster I would absolutely positively not trade and that's KAT. Among the rest of the core guys I mentioned, here's how I rank them from least inclined to trade to most willing to trade (although I wouldn't try to trade any of them):

1. Gorgui -- The ultimate glue guy. Amazingly consistent and way underrated by many.

2. Zach - Assumign he comes back healthy, I still love his upside. With his 3-point shooting and ball-handling I see him as a potentially more complete player than Wiggins.

3. Ricky -- The only guy other than Gorgui who will take a charge and who will play with heart and fire in his belly on both ends of the court every single minute he's on the court. His recent improvement in his shooting vaults him ahead of Wiggins on my "reluctant to trade" list.

4. Wiggins -- A tremendous talent who has reached a point in his career where it's hard to see him as anything more than a great scorer who is somewhat streaky and not always engaged emotionally. He could still be more and I definitely don't think we should actively shop him. But I'd be all ears for the right offer.

I mean come on. There's not a GM in the entire league that would have Wiggins below Dieng, Lavine and Ricky from a value standpoint. He's the second most valuable player on the team and he's still super young. 20 PPG 22 year olds are few and far between in this league. Dieng is a bench big, Zach is coming off a torn ACL and Ricky has yet to be the primary ball handler on even a .500 team and he's already in the prime of his career.

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:A closing post-script based on tonight's game. Our great defensive hope started at PG tonight and guess what -- we gave up 123 points. Although Dunn did log 16 assists.

I missed the game so I'm relying entirely on the box score. But it's a familiar box score showing KAT to be the only critical "build-around" player on this roster. 28 points and 21 rebounds. But that's not just tonight. Put KAT in the line up and he'll give you 25 points and over 12 boards nearly every single game along with nearly 3 assists and at least 1 block. And his scoring is always efficient. He shot 54% from the field and was among the better 3-point shooters in the League at 36.2%. I know he needs a lot of work on his defense, but there's no denying he's a force offensively and on the boards. And remember that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense.

I've stated that I want to keep our entire core together, including Wiggins, Gorgui, Zach and Ricky. I stand by that, but there is only one guy on this roster I would absolutely positively not trade and that's KAT. Among the rest of the core guys I mentioned, here's how I rank them from least inclined to trade to most willing to trade (although I wouldn't try to trade any of them):

1. Gorgui -- The ultimate glue guy. Amazingly consistent and way underrated by many.

2. Zach - Assumign he comes back healthy, I still love his upside. With his 3-point shooting and ball-handling I see him as a potentially more complete player than Wiggins.

3. Ricky -- The only guy other than Gorgui who will take a charge and who will play with heart and fire in his belly on both ends of the court every single minute he's on the court. His recent improvement in his shooting vaults him ahead of Wiggins on my "reluctant to trade" list.

4. Wiggins -- A tremendous talent who has reached a point in his career where it's hard to see him as anything more than a great scorer who is somewhat streaky and not always engaged emotionally. He could still be more and I definitely don't think we should actively shop him. But I'd be all ears for the right offer.

I mean come on. There's not a GM in the entire league that would have Wiggins below Dieng, Lavine and Ricky from a value standpoint. He's the second most valuable player on the team and he's still super young. 20 PPG 22 year olds are few and far between in this league. Dieng is a bench big, Zach is coming off a torn ACL and Ricky has yet to be the primary ball handler on even a .500 team and he's already in the prime of his career.

Geez, I'm not saying that Gorgui and Wiggins command equal value on the trade market. I'm just saying that I'm more inclined to keep Gorgui than Wiggins as the sort of player we need goring forward while listening to offers for Wiggins if the deal would bring back value comparable to Wiggins. Of course I'd expect to get more in return for Wiggins than for Gorgui. And I'm under no illusions about what we'd get back for Zach or Ricky. I recognize we're not going to get sufficient value back for either of those two compared to the value they provideor will potentially will provide to us. We don't have any reliable 3-point shooter other than Zach and we have no NBA caliber PG other than Ricky. And their trade value is, I believe, understated now for the reasons you stated. So, I mean, come on.

By the way, I'm not advocating for a Wiggins trade and I agree with Q that it's highly unlikely Thibs will trade him or KAT. I'd add that I don't see Thibs trading Gorgui. He LOVES Gorgui. More likely Thibs will trade Ricky or Zach.