Minnesota Sports Forum

mrhockey89 wrote:It wouldn't make sense for Towns to go public on something like that unless it happens when Wiggins is the most likely trade piece

It wouldn't make sense for KAT to even do it in private unless the team came to him with the deal. You don't take a chance alienating one of your top players (who is also reportedly his friend) unless you are sure the deal is happening.

sjm34 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:It wouldn't make sense for Towns to go public on something like that unless it happens when Wiggins is the most likely trade piece

It wouldn't make sense for KAT to even do it in private unless the team came to him with the deal. You don't take a chance alienating one of your top players (who is also reportedly his friend) unless you are sure the deal is happening.

You don't think Thibs is looking heavily at trying to make a deal happen? I would be shocked if Thibs isn't trying to make a trade for Kyrie take place, probably even at the expense of Wiggins, because Kyrie gives him a better chance of the Wolves winning now. If there's any way to get it done without Wiggins, I think he'd do it in an instant, but Kyrie represents a bird in hand when it comes to winning sooner.

A question worth asking is how bad is Kyrie's defense? Here is one article about his defense specifically in the playoffs. If some people didn't like the dropoff from Rubio to Teague the dropoff to Kyrie would likely be another step down. There is a quote in the article about Kyrie that says something like "Kyrie takes the path of least resistance" Ouch

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fanragsports.com/nba/cavaliers/porous-pick-roll-defense-kyrie-irving-killing-cavaliers/amp/

Is Kyrie part of a team that shares the ball? Does he also fit in with 2 other guys like Butler and Towns who are outspoken guys and all that stuff? Wiggins may not be a ball mover but he seems more likely to be willing to be a guy that could fit in than demand to be "the man".

Towns is literally liking twitter posts today showing Irving in a Wolves uniform, I think it's safe to say he's on board

BloopOracle wrote:Towns is literally liking twitter posts today showing Irving in a Wolves uniform, I think it's safe to say he's on board

not necessarily using WIggins in the trade though!

mrhockey89 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:It wouldn't make sense for Towns to go public on something like that unless it happens when Wiggins is the most likely trade piece

It wouldn't make sense for KAT to even do it in private unless the team came to him with the deal. You don't take a chance alienating one of your top players (who is also reportedly his friend) unless you are sure the deal is happening.

You don't think Thibs is looking heavily at trying to make a deal happen? I would be shocked if Thibs isn't trying to make a trade for Kyrie take place, probably even at the expense of Wiggins, because Kyrie gives him a better chance of the Wolves winning now. If there's any way to get it done without Wiggins, I think he'd do it in an instant, but Kyrie represents a bird in hand when it comes to winning sooner.

I have no idea what Thibs is doing, but Windhorst (who I think started this) stated that Wiggins was a no starter in the Butler trade. Not sure if somehow that changes a month later.

edit: I am not so sure that Kyrie makes our team better if we move Wiggins. Kyrie is a lousy and unwilling defender, gets hurt easily, and his offense isn't that much better than AW. Wiggins may catch him offensively in the next year or two. We certainly have a better balanced team right now.

sjm34 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:Towns is literally liking twitter posts today showing Irving in a Wolves uniform, I think it's safe to say he's on board

not necessarily using WIggins in the trade though!

Thibs needs to sit Butler and Towns down and tell them to wait this out until the trade deadline or next offseason. Have Jimmy let Kyrie know this and he can Paul George teams to lower his trade value and give us a chance at getting him without giving up Wiggins.

sjm34 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Please enlighten me on which team is going to open max cap space to sign Kyrie or Butler to a veteran max that would still be able to keep their two other all-star players they would need to have to be a better destination than us? And then add in we can offer the most money and I find it much more likely they stay and sign together than breakup and leave to different destinations to be on weaker teams that have an even smaller chance to beat the Warriors. That logic just makes no sense that they would leave because they couldn't beat the Warriors when there would be nobody available who they could join in free agency to be a better challenge to the Warriors than us. You're basically saying they should see where they can go to make less money and have less of a chance to beat the Warriors. That math doesn't add up.

How about SA who only has Leonard on the books that year. They could take in both guys, and still have cap space, not to mention all the vets that would be jumping at the chance to fill out their team. How about the LAC, who right now would have Blake on the books and nothing else. LAL could make that happen as well. HOU would need to unload Ryan Andersen, and Eric Gordon, who would both be on expiring deals. Certainly not out of the real of possibility.

Neither guy is entitled to the max extension, so the money wouldn't be a huge obstacle, particularly when you are making 150 mil already.

When I hear KAT say he is on board with the deal, I will rest a little easier (if it happens). But after his initial reaction to the butler deal, I don't think I would pencil him in as a long term wolf. He clearly thinks of this as his team, and I don't think Kyrie would see it that way.

So you are telling me that a team with 3 potential top 15 players breaks up just to play next to Kawhi over Kat? Keep in mind Pop is likely retired at that point. Blake is not a better option and fitting Kyrie or Butler into CP3 and Harden makes no sense. The Lakers would have who to attract them to come? PG13 and Ball. They couldn't have Lebron and PG and cap space to sign anyone. There goes another option. At the end of the day leaving would waste yet another year because having that much cap space means they would have no supporting cast around them again whereas here the could sign and we'd have full exceptions for two off-season's built around them. Kyrie/Butler/Towns is the second best outlook in the West. Nobody else offers a truly better scenario.

BloopOracle wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:Towns is literally liking twitter posts today showing Irving in a Wolves uniform, I think it's safe to say he's on board

not necessarily using WIggins in the trade though!

Thibs needs to sit Butler and Towns down and tell them to wait this out until the trade deadline or next offseason. Have Jimmy let Kyrie know this and he can Paul George teams to lower his trade value and give us a chance at getting him without giving up Wiggins.

I haven't seen anything directly from Butler and Towns, but I believe the reports they've been lobbying for This to get Irving. I agree that public lobbying like that doesn't help for two reasons. First, Kyrie's not a free agent, and he doesn't have a no trade clause, so Cleveland's going to trade him for the best deal. Butler and Towns lobbying for Irving doesn't affect that at all. Second, if we don't get Irving, guys like Wiggins and Teague have to be thinking, "What the hell, my teammates were pushing to trade or replace me!" That can't be good for building trust.

Also, I don't think there's any logical way to make an Irving trade happen, because eventually we'd have to get rid of Teague, but almost every team in the league is set for PG going forward, so who would make an even somewhat even trade for Teague?

And regardless, I'm not sure how I'd even feel about getting Irving. On one hand, having a star PG who can score and put pressure on the D is crucial these days, and Irving can definitely do that. On the other hand, even if you can get over the awkward/imbalanced roster contortions we'd need to take to get him (probably trade Wiggins for him now, then later try to move Teague), I'd be worried about our defense with Kyrie. If we flipped Wiggins for Irving, and we knew for sure we could flip Teague for a defensively solid starting wing after Dec. 15, then maybe I could see it working.

I think Thibs will make a "take it or leave it" offer. The offer will not include Wiggins.

These trades would have to happen separately but here's what I'd offer:

Dieng, Aldrich (cap space next season), Bjelica (RFA/cap space next season) and OKC 1st

For

Irving and Tristan Thompson (ugly contract)

When any player publicly requests a trade, that team is screwed. Is that fair value for Irving? No. But it frees up money to start over once Lebron leaves after this season (which I think my be inevitable as the ship looks like it's sinking).

San Antonio doesn't have anything to offer. Miami has what? Winslow, 31 year old Dragic and Waiters?

I ultimately see him heading to NY for Melo, Ntilikina, and a first but we'll see.

Irving-Wiggins-Butler-Gibson-Towns-Teague-Thompson-Crawford is a title contender. Period.