Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Would anyone have interest in Tiago Splitter if Atlanta wanted to just dump his 8.5 million salary? If healthy he would help but that's been sort of a problem for him throughout his career.

Not a rim protector and, as you said, a history of injury. Aldrich is a much better option, and probably not much more expensive.

I didn't reader has the number strongly but in a down year for him a article I read said that Atlanta was really effective on D when he was in the lineup. I think he may have sort of a positive effect defensively without the big block numbers a bit like Tyson Chandler but obviously not nearly as effective. Tough to say a bit since he played for 2 good defensive squads in the Spurs and Hawks. I just thought his name was worth throwing out there.

Can someone tell me what a 'rim protector" is? Someone who blocks shots? I think that's an overrated statistic. I'd rather have someone who just plays good D and can hack a shaq for 15 minutes and make easy jumpers.

Q12543 wrote:
Nice essay there on the merits and magic of Boban. However, I suspect he has issues when switched onto guards and wings, many of whom you can't give space to anymore since so many will knock down the 3. Mobility in defending out on the perimeter and in space is so key for big men these days....

As for the other guys you mention, Mahinmi is a big fish in my opinion and will be expensive. That dude has developed into a very nice defensive anchor. And when Thibs talks about getting bigger and tougher, I can see him going in the direction of a Mahinmi (or Pachulia, who would be cheaper) for some interior strength and defense. Neither are the types of guys to be on the floor in close games late in 4th quarters, but they help us match up against bigger teams early in halves.

Mahinmi especially could have also enough mobility to defend space but like you wrote, he cannot be played in the end of games because he is woeful free throw shooter. I'm a curious why you think Pachulia could not be relied in close games 4th quarter? He is career 75% free throw shooter.

Andrew Bogut may be on the trade block.

BizarroJerry wrote:Can someone tell me what a 'rim protector" is? Someone who blocks shots? I think that's an overrated statistic. I'd rather have someone who just plays good D and can hack a shaq for 15 minutes and make easy jumpers.

Good question, jerry. I generally just look at blocked shots when I evaluate whether a player is a rim protector or not, but it is a lazy statistic. The ideal rim protector would be a long athletic big who not only blocks shots, but also alters shots or deters opponents from even trying shots. There was a game where the announcers were raving about Whiteside's 7 blocked shots. But even more important than that were the countless times he altered a shot into a miss or an opponent dribbled into the lane and exited because of his presence.

The ideal stat to evaluate "rim protectors" would be a stat that somehow combined all three of these events...blocks, alters, and shots not taken...but that stat doesn't exist. So I default to blocked shots. While this is lazy, observation tells me that a player who blocks a lot of shots also alters more shots than the average defender, and also discourages more opponents from shooting around the basket.

Mikkeman wrote:

Q12543 wrote:
Nice essay there on the merits and magic of Boban. However, I suspect he has issues when switched onto guards and wings, many of whom you can't give space to anymore since so many will knock down the 3. Mobility in defending out on the perimeter and in space is so key for big men these days....

As for the other guys you mention, Mahinmi is a big fish in my opinion and will be expensive. That dude has developed into a very nice defensive anchor. And when Thibs talks about getting bigger and tougher, I can see him going in the direction of a Mahinmi (or Pachulia, who would be cheaper) for some interior strength and defense. Neither are the types of guys to be on the floor in close games late in 4th quarters, but they help us match up against bigger teams early in halves.

Mahinmi especially could have also enough mobility to defend space but like you wrote, he cannot be played in the end of games because he is woeful free throw shooter. I'm a curious why you think Pachulia could not be relied in close games 4th quarter? He is career 75% free throw shooter.

More because of match-ups....Pachulia is a big, strong dude best utilized as a guy who can knock some bodies around in the paint. I'd love the idea of him starting halves at C playing next to Towns and essentially being our "enforcer". He has that edge and toughness I think Thibs likes in guys.

But when you get late in the 4th, most teams are deploying a PG, three wings, and a fairly mobile PF or C. I just don't see Pachulia matching up well in that situation.

longstrangetrip wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Can someone tell me what a 'rim protector" is? Someone who blocks shots? I think that's an overrated statistic. I'd rather have someone who just plays good D and can hack a shaq for 15 minutes and make easy jumpers.

Good question, jerry. I generally just look at blocked shots when I evaluate whether a player is a rim protector or not, but it is a lazy statistic. The ideal rim protector would be a long athletic big who not only blocks shots, but also alters shots or deters opponents from even trying shots. There was a game where the announcers were raving about Whiteside's 7 blocked shots. But even more important than that were the countless times he altered a shot into a miss or an opponent dribbled into the lane and exited because of his presence.

The ideal stat to evaluate "rim protectors" would be a stat that somehow combined all three of these events...blocks, alters, and shots not taken...but that stat doesn't exist. So I default to blocked shots. While this is lazy, observation tells me that a player who blocks a lot of shots also alters more shots than the average defender, and also discourages more opponents from shooting around the basket.

You can also look at FG% at the rim and see if they have an overall effect there.

longstrangetrip wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Can someone tell me what a 'rim protector" is? Someone who blocks shots? I think that's an overrated statistic. I'd rather have someone who just plays good D and can hack a shaq for 15 minutes and make easy jumpers.

Good question, jerry. I generally just look at blocked shots when I evaluate whether a player is a rim protector or not, but it is a lazy statistic. The ideal rim protector would be a long athletic big who not only blocks shots, but also alters shots or deters opponents from even trying shots. There was a game where the announcers were raving about Whiteside's 7 blocked shots. But even more important than that were the countless times he altered a shot into a miss or an opponent dribbled into the lane and exited because of his presence.

The ideal stat to evaluate "rim protectors" would be a stat that somehow combined all three of these events...blocks, alters, and shots not taken...but that stat doesn't exist. So I default to blocked shots. While this is lazy, observation tells me that a player who blocks a lot of shots also alters more shots than the average defender, and also discourages more opponents from shooting around the basket.

I think "paint protector" might be the more apt term. What you see with the best interior defenders are guys that may be started their careers as more prolific shot blockers, but then eventually learned the nuances of positional defense, how to wall up, etc. Duncan is a prime example of a guy that barely ever leaves his feet anymore, but is a master of defending the paint.

Pachulia is another interesting guy to watch, because he rarely blocks shots. But he has learned how to jostle and body up on guys without fouling, and his sturdy frame is really hard to move. So it's just hard to create space and get clean looks against him. Compare this to Gorgui Dieng, who at times makes spectacular blocks, but is often easily moved off his base and knocked off balance in the paint.

I agree with portions of both of the previous posts by monster and q. There are many elements that go into evaluating the effectiveness of a rim or paint protector, but I think it is such a valuable part of a team's defense that I think a new stat should be developed for centers. The stat would combine shots blocked, % of shots made at the rim or within 5 feet, and rate of shots taken within 5 feet (the logic being the most feared defenders will discourage opponents from shooting close to the basket).

While I think this stat would be ideal, my gut tells me that there would be a high correlation between the centers who led the league in this stat and the centers who led the league in blocked shots.

longstrangetrip wrote:I agree with portions of both of the previous posts by monster and q. There are many elements that go into evaluating the effectiveness of a rim or paint protector, but I think it is such a valuable part of a team's defense that I think a new stat should be developed for centers. The stat would combine shots blocked, % of shots made at the rim or within 5 feet, and rate of shots taken within 5 feet (the logic being the most feared defenders will discourage opponents from shooting close to the basket).

While I think this stat would be ideal, my gut tells me that there would be a high correlation between the centers who led the league in this stat and the centers who led the league in blocked shots.

Tell that to Tyson Chandler who has made a ton of money based on his defensive abilities that has had 2 seasons above 1.5 blocks per season and the last one of those was nearly 10 years ago. I used to think Chandler wasn't that good of a defender because of that stats but I was wrong. Just sayin. :)