Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:LST your minutes thing is a bizarre quest. So...during your charting time we are talking about 2 mins per game per player of a difference? That's seriously not particularly significant.

As for whether Thibs should have pulled the guys sooner in this game...well with 5 mins left the Wolves were up 15. We ALL know that lead isn't safe. At 3:50 Towns has a goal tending that leaves the Wolves up by 12. The Wolves don't really put the game away till it's under 3 mins left. I was thinking he could have pulled them at that point or maybe a minute earlier but we are again talking about a couple minutes of game time and Thibs clearly seems to want these guys to learn how to finish games and the game wasn't exactly over. If they keep playing well there will be more games where they get to sit and do it for longer.

My point remains the same, monster. If your best 5 players could play 48 minutes a game optimally, then there would be no need for coaches to substitute. But winning coaches know rest is an important factor in maintaining peak efficiency, and the collective wisdom of the NBA coaches has arrived at a rotation pattern that they believe results in optimal performance for their best players. Thibs is a significant outlier in this philosophy and rests his starters far less than the league average (and to clarify the math, the 26 MPG difference the first half of the year equals 5 MPG of less rest for our starters, not 2), and I believe that difference is significant and is reflected in our previous sloppy end of game play. I know that when I played in high school and college, that extra minute or two of rest on the bench meant so much to my play...especially on the defensive end. Maybe I was just a wimp though :).

We all agree that Thibs is an outlier when it comes to starter minutes...the numbers this year and throughout his career don't lie. The difference of opinion is whether less rest than our opponents is meaningful or not this season...I think it is critical, you disagree. That's okay...this is an opinion board. But I'm pretty comfortable with my hypothesis given the numbers I cited above and the corresponding improvement in end of game play as the rest differential has decreased. I'll continue to monitor this phenomenon, and those who don't find it meaningful always have the option of ignoring my research.

Q12543 wrote:LST, Don't get too optimistic about our chances for the 8th seed. Have you seen our upcoming schedule, especially March? We basically need to be making significant headway NOW because we have a really tough schedule come March. That's what makes losses like the one a few games ago @Dallas or the home loss to Indiana especially difficult. We have zero room for error.

That being said, just the notion of being "in it" is refreshing. But I'm honestly not very optimistic.

Yeah, my Wolves mood swings are traditionally epic! And I agree that the schedule ahead is much more daunting and that there are too many teams ahead of us. But I'm hanging to the belief that our ineptitude the first half of the year had more to do with the players and coaching than it had to do with the opposition, and I'm clinging to the same belief during this recent win streak. My optimism resides in my belief that this club is improving and has the talent to hang with most of the top teams in the league...while pounding the Nets of the world.

Of course if they descend into another tailspin, I reserve the right to return to the depression phase of my manic depressive profile :).

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:LST your minutes thing is a bizarre quest. So...during your charting time we are talking about 2 mins per game per player of a difference? That's seriously not particularly significant.

As for whether Thibs should have pulled the guys sooner in this game...well with 5 mins left the Wolves were up 15. We ALL know that lead isn't safe. At 3:50 Towns has a goal tending that leaves the Wolves up by 12. The Wolves don't really put the game away till it's under 3 mins left. I was thinking he could have pulled them at that point or maybe a minute earlier but we are again talking about a couple minutes of game time and Thibs clearly seems to want these guys to learn how to finish games and the game wasn't exactly over. If they keep playing well there will be more games where they get to sit and do it for longer.

My point remains the same, monster. If your best 5 players could play 48 minutes a game optimally, then there would be no need for coaches to substitute. But winning coaches know rest is an important factor in maintaining peak efficiency, and the collective wisdom of the NBA coaches has arrived at a rotation pattern that they believe results in optimal performance for their best players. Thibs is a significant outlier in this philosophy and rests his starters far less than the league average (and to clarify the math, the 26 MPG difference the first half of the year equals 5 MPG of less rest for our starters, not 2), and I believe that difference is significant and is reflected in our previous sloppy end of game play. I know that when I played in high school and college, that extra minute or two of rest on the bench meant so much to my play...especially on the defensive end. Maybe I was just a wimp though :).

We all agree that Thibs is an outlier when it comes to starter minutes...the numbers this year and throughout his career don't lie. The difference of opinion is whether less rest than our opponents is meaningful or not this season...I think it is critical, you disagree. That's okay...this is an opinion board. But I'm pretty comfortable with my hypothesis given the numbers I cited above and the corresponding improvement in end of game play as the rest differential has decreased. I'll continue to monitor this phenomenon, and those who don't find it meaningful always have the option of ignoring my research.

I was talking about your 12 mins difference that you said was a big difference over this stretch. Keep up with your own math man! :)

I think this is a great opportunity where you have been away from watching the games and come at everything from a fresh perspective and I would be interested to hear what you see.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:LST your minutes thing is a bizarre quest. So...during your charting time we are talking about 2 mins per game per player of a difference? That's seriously not particularly significant.

As for whether Thibs should have pulled the guys sooner in this game...well with 5 mins left the Wolves were up 15. We ALL know that lead isn't safe. At 3:50 Towns has a goal tending that leaves the Wolves up by 12. The Wolves don't really put the game away till it's under 3 mins left. I was thinking he could have pulled them at that point or maybe a minute earlier but we are again talking about a couple minutes of game time and Thibs clearly seems to want these guys to learn how to finish games and the game wasn't exactly over. If they keep playing well there will be more games where they get to sit and do it for longer.

My point remains the same, monster. If your best 5 players could play 48 minutes a game optimally, then there would be no need for coaches to substitute. But winning coaches know rest is an important factor in maintaining peak efficiency, and the collective wisdom of the NBA coaches has arrived at a rotation pattern that they believe results in optimal performance for their best players. Thibs is a significant outlier in this philosophy and rests his starters far less than the league average (and to clarify the math, the 26 MPG difference the first half of the year equals 5 MPG of less rest for our starters, not 2), and I believe that difference is significant and is reflected in our previous sloppy end of game play. I know that when I played in high school and college, that extra minute or two of rest on the bench meant so much to my play...especially on the defensive end. Maybe I was just a wimp though :).

We all agree that Thibs is an outlier when it comes to starter minutes...the numbers this year and throughout his career don't lie. The difference of opinion is whether less rest than our opponents is meaningful or not this season...I think it is critical, you disagree. That's okay...this is an opinion board. But I'm pretty comfortable with my hypothesis given the numbers I cited above and the corresponding improvement in end of game play as the rest differential has decreased. I'll continue to monitor this phenomenon, and those who don't find it meaningful always have the option of ignoring my research.

I was talking about your 12 mins difference that you said was a big difference over this stretch. Keep up with your own math man! :)

I think this is a great opportunity where you have been away from watching the games and come at everything from a fresh perspective and I would be interested to hear what you see.

My math is sometimes so creative, even I can't keep up with it!

Yeah, really looking forward to the game tonight after not having seen much of them for a month. There's no question that the box scores look different...now I want to see if the eye test matches. And I'm really excited about seeing the surging KAT in person! I was a victim of the Delta Computer Disaster last night and didn't get back to Minny until 5 in the morning and I'm going on fumes, so the game report observations won't come until tomorrow morning. Let's hope they can keep this good streak going!

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:LST your minutes thing is a bizarre quest. So...during your charting time we are talking about 2 mins per game per player of a difference? That's seriously not particularly significant.

As for whether Thibs should have pulled the guys sooner in this game...well with 5 mins left the Wolves were up 15. We ALL know that lead isn't safe. At 3:50 Towns has a goal tending that leaves the Wolves up by 12. The Wolves don't really put the game away till it's under 3 mins left. I was thinking he could have pulled them at that point or maybe a minute earlier but we are again talking about a couple minutes of game time and Thibs clearly seems to want these guys to learn how to finish games and the game wasn't exactly over. If they keep playing well there will be more games where they get to sit and do it for longer.

My point remains the same, monster. If your best 5 players could play 48 minutes a game optimally, then there would be no need for coaches to substitute. But winning coaches know rest is an important factor in maintaining peak efficiency, and the collective wisdom of the NBA coaches has arrived at a rotation pattern that they believe results in optimal performance for their best players. Thibs is a significant outlier in this philosophy and rests his starters far less than the league average (and to clarify the math, the 26 MPG difference the first half of the year equals 5 MPG of less rest for our starters, not 2), and I believe that difference is significant and is reflected in our previous sloppy end of game play. I know that when I played in high school and college, that extra minute or two of rest on the bench meant so much to my play...especially on the defensive end. Maybe I was just a wimp though :).

We all agree that Thibs is an outlier when it comes to starter minutes...the numbers this year and throughout his career don't lie. The difference of opinion is whether less rest than our opponents is meaningful or not this season...I think it is critical, you disagree. That's okay...this is an opinion board. But I'm pretty comfortable with my hypothesis given the numbers I cited above and the corresponding improvement in end of game play as the rest differential has decreased. I'll continue to monitor this phenomenon, and those who don't find it meaningful always have the option of ignoring my research.

I was talking about your 12 mins difference that you said was a big difference over this stretch. Keep up with your own math man! :)

I think this is a great opportunity where you have been away from watching the games and come at everything from a fresh perspective and I would be interested to hear what you see.

My math is sometimes so creative, even I can't keep up with it!

Yeah, really looking forward to the game tonight after not having seen much of them for a month. There's no question that the box scores look different...now I want to see if the eye test matches. And I'm really excited about seeing the surging KAT in person! I was a victim of the Delta Computer Disaster last night and didn't get back to Minny until 5 in the morning and I'm going on fumes, so the game report observations won't come until tomorrow morning. Let's hope they can keep this good streak going!

Little sleep and you get to listen to Thibs yell man you must love the wolves ?.

If they lose tonight maybe you need to take me trips, haha

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:LST your minutes thing is a bizarre quest. So...during your charting time we are talking about 2 mins per game per player of a difference? That's seriously not particularly significant.

As for whether Thibs should have pulled the guys sooner in this game...well with 5 mins left the Wolves were up 15. We ALL know that lead isn't safe. At 3:50 Towns has a goal tending that leaves the Wolves up by 12. The Wolves don't really put the game away till it's under 3 mins left. I was thinking he could have pulled them at that point or maybe a minute earlier but we are again talking about a couple minutes of game time and Thibs clearly seems to want these guys to learn how to finish games and the game wasn't exactly over. If they keep playing well there will be more games where they get to sit and do it for longer.

My point remains the same, monster. If your best 5 players could play 48 minutes a game optimally, then there would be no need for coaches to substitute. But winning coaches know rest is an important factor in maintaining peak efficiency, and the collective wisdom of the NBA coaches has arrived at a rotation pattern that they believe results in optimal performance for their best players. Thibs is a significant outlier in this philosophy and rests his starters far less than the league average (and to clarify the math, the 26 MPG difference the first half of the year equals 5 MPG of less rest for our starters, not 2), and I believe that difference is significant and is reflected in our previous sloppy end of game play. I know that when I played in high school and college, that extra minute or two of rest on the bench meant so much to my play...especially on the defensive end. Maybe I was just a wimp though :).

We all agree that Thibs is an outlier when it comes to starter minutes...the numbers this year and throughout his career don't lie. The difference of opinion is whether less rest than our opponents is meaningful or not this season...I think it is critical, you disagree. That's okay...this is an opinion board. But I'm pretty comfortable with my hypothesis given the numbers I cited above and the corresponding improvement in end of game play as the rest differential has decreased. I'll continue to monitor this phenomenon, and those who don't find it meaningful always have the option of ignoring my research.

I was talking about your 12 mins difference that you said was a big difference over this stretch. Keep up with your own math man! :)

I think this is a great opportunity where you have been away from watching the games and come at everything from a fresh perspective and I would be interested to hear what you see.

My math is sometimes so creative, even I can't keep up with it!

Yeah, really looking forward to the game tonight after not having seen much of them for a month. There's no question that the box scores look different...now I want to see if the eye test matches. And I'm really excited about seeing the surging KAT in person! I was a victim of the Delta Computer Disaster last night and didn't get back to Minny until 5 in the morning and I'm going on fumes, so the game report observations won't come until tomorrow morning. Let's hope they can keep this good streak going!

Little sleep and you get to listen to Thibs yell man you must love the wolves ?.

If they lose tonight maybe you need to take me trips, haha

I feel ya LST. I caught a cold and so I may have gotten 2-3 hours of sleep last night (couldn't get to sleep because I was coughing) and even what I did get was far from restful. I was pretty tired today and I am not always great at getting sleep in the first place so that's saying something!

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Brooklyn is terrible. But it was a great boxscore win.

- It's not only amazing that Randy Foye is collecting NBA paychecks... he's actually starting NBA games. Shot 33% and it didn't affect his season percentage.
- Every starter and the top bench guy played well offensively.
- KAT is on a roll. He's shot at least 56% for 6 straight games... and 9 out of 10. Shooting 62% in that stretch.
- Rubio is probably more of a threat to score than Dunn right now.
- I'd like to see a way to get Tyus Jones more run. But I get it. Teams don't run with a 3rd PG often.
- A. Payne is alive.
- Unsure about B. Rush and J. Hill.
- I get some of the Chicago vs. Thibs criticism. Up 20... time to get the starters off the floor. 38 mpg is too much in that sort of game, even with a day off the next day. Throw a bone to the reserves.

One thing that I don't get in Thibs rotation is that whenever someone is injured, he can easily trust his replacement to play almost 40 minutes in game but then next game when injured player is back, replacement drops back to DNP CD category and starter plays same 40 minutes. This season his use of Brandon Rush is good example about that. When Zach was injured Rush played more than 38 minutes per game over those two games and then when Zach came back his minutes dropped straight to less than 4 in first game and DNP CD since then.