Minnesota Sports Forum

You can't stick up for Rodman and Wallace and then be anti-Cousins. That's super contradictory. Also, wanna know the real difference between a head case and a cancer? Winning. Some of us believe Cousins on this team puts us in great shape to win both present and future. Others apparently think he doesn't move the needle that much. That's an interesting opinion, but you're welcome to it.

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:I'll end my thoughts with this. Dennis Rodman and Rasheed Wallace were both head cases who went to Chicago and Detroit and become key cogs for title teams. Head cases next to talent in winning situations can work at the highest level and in fact put teams over the top. If you truly believe in Towns, Wiggins and Lavine as future stars, putting Cousins next to them doesn't affect them negatively at all and in fact helps all three of them because it puts a monster in our frontcourt who can make everyone else's life easier. You know what keeps everyone happy? Winning. And a Ricky/Lavine/Wiggins/Towns/Cousins starting 5 would win a lot of damn games.

Is there a difference between head cases and cancers? Rodman was a head case but I don't think he was a cancer. Wallace was an asshole but his teammates loved him. Marbury was a cancer and never won, largely as a result of it. Deron Williams is a cancer, and his teams have underachieved. I think it depends more on what kind of teammate you are as opposed to being a head case.

How do you know Cousins is a cancer and not just a head case? None of the previous coach firings were something he championed. In fact the Karl situation is really the only one where he's been vehemently against the coach and even that was only because Karl tried to trade him behind his and the organizations back. The rest of the changes have been due to impatient and terrible ownership. The guy has shown nothing but loyalty to Sacramento and they've repaid him with nothing but instability and bad teammates. He was a head case at Kentucky, but far from a cancer on that team. The guy hasn't even pulled the he goes or I go between Karl and him with ownership. D Will got a HOF mainstay coach run out of town. That's a cancer. Cousins has never been a cancer for people he respected like Cal and Malone and Karl lost that respect the second he tried to offload him before ever even talking to the guy. So it's hard for me to call a guy a cancer because of 1 season.

With all due respect, you haven't been paying attention to Cousins' career.

Prove it then. If you're gonna call me out, back up your own opinion with facts that contradict mine or GTFO.

He's been suspended 7 times in his career:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/demarcus-cousins/fines/

Anything from conduct detrimental to the team, to punching opponents, to confronting a broadcaster. That's the definition of a cancer.

Rodman was suspended multiple times as well. Just look up Dennis Rodman suspended and it's a boatload of results. But he wasn't a cancer. Which is it? I don't see how you can call out Demarcus for his shit and give Rodman a pass for his.

A quote talking about Rodman:

"After aborting a suicide attempt in 1993, he reinvented himself as a "bad boy" and became notorious for numerous controversial antics. He repeatedly dyed his hair in artificial colors, had many piercings and tattoos, and regularly disrupted games by clashing with opposing players and officials. He famously wore a wedding dress to promote his 1996 autobiography Bad As I Wanna Be. Rodman pursued a high-profile affair with singer Madonna and was briefly married to actress Carmen Electra."

A definition of a cancer could include Rodman, I'm not the sole proprieter of the term. But to me he was a much better teammate than Cousins is. I don't recall him ever punching a teammate. Your quote above doesn't reference any issues with his mates. Anyway, this discussion really isn't about Rodman is it? It's about Cousins being a bad seed. You asked me to author proof and I did.

Camden wrote:You can't stick up for Rodman and Wallace and then be anti-Cousins. That's super contradictory. Also, wanna know the real difference between a head case and a cancer? Winning. Some of us believe Cousins on this team puts us in great shape to win both present and future. Others apparently think he doesn't move the needle that much. That's an interesting opinion, but you're welcome to it.

Oh yes you can. It's all about being a good teammate and being able to function within the team. Don't twist this to suggest I'm saying Rodman and Wallace were without issues. They we're both drags on their organizations for multiple reasons. But they were both very good teammates, and that's why they were able to be prime contributors on championship teams. Rodman brought his lunch pail to work every day and didn't pout. Wallace was very well liked by his teammates, even though the media couldn't stand him. And to your point, winning is the one thing Cousins hasn't done. And until he can do it within a team concept there are going to be doubts about him.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:You can't stick up for Rodman and Wallace and then be anti-Cousins. That's super contradictory. Also, wanna know the real difference between a head case and a cancer? Winning. Some of us believe Cousins on this team puts us in great shape to win both present and future. Others apparently think he doesn't move the needle that much. That's an interesting opinion, but you're welcome to it.

Oh yes you can. It's all about being a good teammate and being able to function within the team. Don't twist this to suggest I'm saying Rodman and Wallace were without issues. They we're both drags on their organizations for multiple reasons. But they were both very good teammates, and that's why they were able to be prime contributors on championship teams. Rodman brought his lunch pail to work every day and didn't pout. Wallace was very well liked by his teammates, even though the media couldn't stand him. And to your point, winning is the one thing Cousins hasn't done. And until he can do it within a team concept there are going to be doubts about him.

Cousins ran an all star Isiah Thomas out of town because they couldn't get along

Cousins ran an all star Isiah Thomas out of town because they couldn't get along.

Wait, what? That's not true. The Kings viewed Thomas as a prototypical sixth man and did express interest in bringing him back, but he ultimately signed with the Suns. The Kings front office messed that up by undervaluing the caliber player he was, not Cousins. Nobody ran him out of town.

Thomas: "I mean they were interested, but it wasn't enough. I felt like if they wanted me as bad as they said they did, they should have been the first to show more interest than others. That's the only thing that caught me off guard, but at the end of the day I thought, 'Man, it's a business and things happen.' They looked in a different direction, and that's what they wanted. People always say I feel bitter, but I don't. People always ask me the question, so I'm going to answer it, and people always bring it up. So it is what it is."

Looking back on your three years there, what's the takeaway on your time with DeMarcus?

Thomas: "It was good, man. I mean we had our ups and downs. We butted heads because I'm going to speak up no matter what. I'm not going to hold my breath. Some people may do that towards him, but I'm going to always say how I feel and it's the same thing with him. So we would butt heads, but at the end of the day, when we were out there on that court we would run through a wall for each other."

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/11/isaiah-thomas-sacramento-suns

Camden0916 wrote:You can't stick up for Rodman and Wallace and then be anti-Cousins. That's super contradictory. Also, wanna know the real difference between a head case and a cancer? Winning. Some of us believe Cousins on this team puts us in great shape to win both present and future. Others apparently think he doesn't move the needle that much. That's an interesting opinion, but you're welcome to it.

It's easier to handle Rodman with established stars. He didn't become a malcontent until San Antonio and he walked into a situation with great veteran leadership. His game also fit what the Bulls needed. They didn't need another scorer, that had two great ones. They needed defense, rebounding, and grit. I don't think we are the best fit for Cousins because he brings the same element we already have and we do not have the veteran leadership to stay on him.

If the 76ers offered Okafor for our first I wouldn't take it, because we need that defensive, gritty, rebounding big to go with Towns. With our big three we have guys that are all easily capable of averaging 20 a night. In my opinion there is a difference between getting a bunch of great players and building a team. I think Boston is the best fit for Cousins, because they would run their offense through him and they have established leadership within the organization.

Camden0916 wrote:

Cousins ran an all star Isiah Thomas out of town because they couldn't get along.

Wait, what? That's not true. The Kings viewed Thomas as a prototypical sixth man and did express interest in bringing him back, but he ultimately signed with the Suns. The Kings front office messed that up by undervaluing the caliber player he was, not Cousins. Nobody ran him out of town.

Thomas: "I mean they were interested, but it wasn't enough. I felt like if they wanted me as bad as they said they did, they should have been the first to show more interest than others. That's the only thing that caught me off guard, but at the end of the day I thought, 'Man, it's a business and things happen.' They looked in a different direction, and that's what they wanted. People always say I feel bitter, but I don't. People always ask me the question, so I'm going to answer it, and people always bring it up. So it is what it is."

Looking back on your three years there, what's the takeaway on your time with DeMarcus?

Thomas: "It was good, man. I mean we had our ups and downs. We butted heads because I'm going to speak up no matter what. I'm not going to hold my breath. Some people may do that towards him, but I'm going to always say how I feel and it's the same thing with him. So we would butt heads, but at the end of the day, when we were out there on that court we would run through a wall for each other."

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/11/isaiah-thomas-sacramento-suns

I'm probably reading to much into it but a interview between zach lowe and Thomas

Whenever someone leaves a team under semi-controversial circumstances, the people left on that team the next preseason sometimes come out with those passive-aggressive comments about how things are really looking up. I'm sure you've seen the comments from DeMarcus Cousins and others, about how the ball isn't "sticking" any more, and things like that. Do you hear that stuff? Do you care?

It definitely is a jab at me. I see it, and I use it as motivation. I don't think too much of it, because I definitely wasn't the problem there. But I do see the shots thrown at me. I wish the people throwing the shots would say my name, but they don't want to. I just go about my business and worry about what I've got to do with the Phoenix Suns.

The Kings offense was better with you on the floor. The percentage of baskets that came via assists was even a little higher.1 Do you see that data and feel kind of validated?

I see those numbers, but at the end of the day, they've got to blame somebody. I know at the end of the day, this league is a business. They feel the way they feel, and that's how it is. I'm with the Phoenix Suns now, and I'm worried about making the playoffs.

Bottom line: If DeMarcus tells the Kings he wants you back, do you think you're a King now?

I mean, he's the franchise player, so, I think anything he says, they'd probably take into high consideration. So ... I guess.

For me, there's a huge difference between being indifferent towards a player returning and running someone out of town, as you stated earlier. I also don't think that means Cousins is a bad teammate or a locker room cancer.

I also think those that are downing Cousins aren't taking into account how much more mature he is. He's gained a lot in that area over the past two or three years. Playing for Team USA certainly helped him in that aspect.

Also a tidbit from Boogie himself on his early years in the league:

"It wasn't the greatest situation," Cousins said. "We weren't really playing for the future. It wasn't about getting better. It was about saving a dollar. But whatever was negative was put on me. I had to learn everything on my own. I didn't have a veteran I could go to. I didn't have a coach I could go to. I couldn't control that we weren't making the right moves. I couldn't control that we didn't know where the hell our team was going to be. It was a rough start to my career. I fought through it, the best that I could."

"It still irritates him that perception is not always reality. "It really gets under my skin. Sometimes I feel like (the media) has so much control over what kind of person you can be, no matter what the reality is. You see guys they praise who they think are the greatest guys in the league, and they're assholes--they're the worst people ever. And then there are people they bash, for whatever reason, and you meet them and they're the coolest people ever. I just hate that fact. Some of what I get, I deserve; I do some dumb stuff sometimes. But I do not deserve the perception that I have."

"When they say I'm a bad teammate and that I got a coach fired, that irritates the hell out of me," he said. "The biggest thing for me is to always have respect for my teammates."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2240721-meet-the-real-demarcus-cousins-strong-willed-maturing-misunderstood

It's easier to hide/mask/subdue a malcontent/cancer/rabble rouser when that guy joins a veteran-laden team with clear pecking order.

When that guy has a case for best player on the team... And is the more experienced player... Why would he willingly take a backseat?

Cousins as a veteran leader with so many young guys scares me... Even if his talent impresses me.

If Towns/Wiggins/LaVine are as good as most here think, the Wolves have their foundation. Supplement it... Don't supplant it.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
If Towns/Wiggins/LaVine are as good as most here think, the Wolves have their foundation. Supplement it... Don't supplant it.

Well said