Q12543 wrote:Cam, While I agree that Rondo is currently the better player than Rubio, there are some mitigating factors here. First, he's older and has reached his ceiling for all intents and purposes. And while Rubio isn't exactly a spring chicken anymore, I still think there is some runway for improvement. Second, Rondo is owed another $13M in salary next season. I don't think he's worth that much. And lastly, probably what this team needs more than better finishers are better long-range shooters. Rondo does nothing to help us in this area whereas Rubio has at least shown some potential as a set shooter. We can build off of that. I just don't see Rondo's current level of play outweighing these other factors.
I'd make the trade for Rondo and then worry about getting shooters. Improve the core of the team as much as possible (Rondo/Love/Pek) and then build around it. Barea, Brewer and Mbah a Moute are our bad contracts right now. Some can argue Martin and Bud are as well, but they still have value. If we can find a way to dump those first three I listed we'd be fine. It's just dumping those guys that would be the difficult part. I assume Barea has value to a playoff team needing a spark plug. Brewer could still be viewed as a sixth man type. MaM... we might be stuck with him.
Point being, if we had three players that are top-five at their position, we'd be in a much better situation that we are now.
Q12543 wrote:Cam, While I agree that Rondo is currently the better player than Rubio, there are some mitigating factors here. First, he's older and has reached his ceiling for all intents and purposes. And while Rubio isn't exactly a spring chicken anymore, I still think there is some runway for improvement. Second, Rondo is owed another $13M in salary next season. I don't think he's worth that much. And lastly, probably what this team needs more than better finishers are better long-range shooters. Rondo does nothing to help us in this area whereas Rubio has at least shown some potential as a set shooter. We can build off of that. I just don't see Rondo's current level of play outweighing these other factors.
Q, to me its kind of the chicken or egg theory. Do the wolves not have guys that can hit outside shots or are they never open cuz the threat of the dribble drive and score just isnt there. Defenses dont collapse when Ricky drives to the hoop. Imagine if perimeter players had that extra split second to catch and shoot. I'm not saying they're world beaters but I know its alot easier to get a good look when the defender roams a lil bit.
Rondo averages 14-9-6-2 in the playoffs. At the end of the day, it comes down to teams are scared of how good Rondo is at times in all phases of the game. He has single handedly dominated playoff games on a Lebron level before. Has Ricky ever exploded in every facet of the game? He has had some nice assist and steals nights, but has he ever exploded on a team offensively? That is the difference between the two. Rondo is older, but he has the it factor that can win games based on his effort alone where Ricky doesn't have that. Ricky can't take over games because he can't score. People can rag on Rondo because his career numbers might be low, but it doesn't change the fact that he can win a game on any given night and he shows up when it counts the most in the playoffs. Ricky just doesn't have the ability to win a game for you because he depends on others for his impact to be felt. People complain we don't have enough shot creators. Rondo is a shot creator and he can get both a shot for himself or a teammate. Rondo is one of the most deadly PnR players in the league and we would be teaming him up with Love and Pek who are two of the better bigs in the league off the PnR. At this point, youth should probably be sacrificed for the better player because we can't wait 2-3 years for Ricky to become Rondo because Love will probably be gone by then.
khans2k5 wrote:Rondo averages 14-9-6-2 in the playoffs. At the end of the day, it comes down to teams are scared of how good Rondo is at times in all phases of the game. He has single handedly dominated playoff games on a Lebron level before. Has Ricky ever exploded in every facet of the game? He has had some nice assist and steals nights, but has he ever exploded on a team offensively? That is the difference between the two. Rondo is older, but he has the it factor that can win games based on his effort alone where Ricky doesn't have that. Ricky can't take over games because he can't score. People can rag on Rondo because his career numbers might be low, but it doesn't change the fact that he can win a game on any given night and he shows up when it counts the most in the playoffs. Ricky just doesn't have the ability to win a game for you because he depends on others for his impact to be felt. People complain we don't have enough shot creators. Rondo is a shot creator and he can get both a shot for himself or a teammate. Rondo is one of the most deadly PnR players in the league and we would be teaming him up with Love and Pek who are two of the better bigs in the league off the PnR. At this point, youth should probably be sacrificed for the better player because we can't wait 2-3 years for Ricky to become Rondo because Love will probably be gone by then.
Agreed, if winning now is the goal Rondo is the better solution. Is anyone guaranteeing Ricky gets better by this time next year?
PorkChop wrote:So no one is concerned with Rickys past injury? Since Rondos seems to be a bit of a deal breaker. Injuries happen. Id be more concerned if we were talking about 7fters hauling around 275lbs.
Pork -- I admire your persistence, but my point was that Rondo's knee hasn't been tested. Ricky's been playing for the equivalent of a full season on his knee without any problems. Then there are all the other factors Q and I have identified. I like Rondo a lot, but all things considered, I would hope we can do better if we decide to trade Ricky. And for now, I'd hang onto Ricky, Love and Pekovic for the test of this season.
PorkChop wrote:So no one is concerned with Rickys past injury? Since Rondos seems to be a bit of a deal breaker. Injuries happen. Id be more concerned if we were talking about 7fters hauling around 275lbs.
Pork -- I admire your persistence, but my point was that Rondo's knee hasn't been tested. Ricky's been playing for the equivalent of a full season on his knee without any problems. Then there are all the other factors Q and I have identified. I like Rondo a lot, but all things considered, I would hope we can do better if we decide to trade Ricky. And for now, I'd hang onto Ricky, Love and Pekovic for the test of this season.
Lip, even u have said that Ricky needs better athletes around him. How much better? By that I mean how much money can the Wolves spend on a better athlete or two while maintaining the core?
I wouldn't do the trade, if the goal is to win more games..........but if you want to see a turbulent locker room with Rondo and Love taking cheap shots at each other.........it might be worth it for entertainment value.
markkbu wrote:I wouldn't do the trade, if the goal is to win more games..........but if you want to see a turbulent locker room with Rondo and Love taking cheap shots at each other.........it might be worth it for entertainment value.
Winning makes everything better. First, how do we know Rondo and Love would clash? No reason to think so, in my opinion. I also see Rondo as a pretty good leader; one that's gone through both winning and losing situations. With Rondo and Love's desire to win, wouldn't it only push each other to do just that and win? I don't know, but I think it'd be a hell of a pickup and one I'd be behind.
markkbu wrote:I wouldn't do the trade, if the goal is to win more games..........but if you want to see a turbulent locker room with Rondo and Love taking cheap shots at each other.........it might be worth it for entertainment value.
I love this. Rondo managed to be the main facilitating cog for a championship team in Boston for several seasons. Yes, he has a bit of an attitude, but he made that Boston team special. He was not a bit player, but a key factor in that teams success. He also did this on a team filled with massive egos. I am certainly not worried about the guy being a bad apple. My worry would be that Love may cry when someone comes in and actually holds him accountable for his play and his commentary.
IMO, the talent level between Rondo and Rubio isn't even close. The injury scares me, but in the end, I make this deal fairly quickly.
markkbu wrote:I wouldn't do the trade, if the goal is to win more games..........but if you want to see a turbulent locker room with Rondo and Love taking cheap shots at each other.........it might be worth it for entertainment value.
Winning makes everything better. First, how do we know Rondo and Love would clash? No reason to think so, in my opinion. I also see Rondo as a pretty good leader; one that's gone through both winning and losing situations. With Rondo and Love's desire to win, wouldn't it only push each other to do just that and win? I don't know, but I think it'd be a hell of a pickup and one I'd be behind.
Its pretty obvious this trade has to happen. If Camden and I can agree on something, it must be done! Haha
