Minnesota Sports Forum

What are we really talking about here? This team is arguably the worst in the NBA . Every asset should be considered tradeable. This team isn't even on the cusp of playoff talk. Let's stop building for an 8th seed and start looking more long term. Gather picks and hope we hit a home run or two. Laying our hopes on guys like Martin and Pek is ridiculous when legitimate contenders would be considering them valuable role players

Hard to disagree. But what is Pek's trade value now, with 12m over 5 years guarenteed?

papalrep wrote:Hard to disagree. But what is Pek's trade value now, with 12m over 5 years guarenteed?

Not much at this point. Which is why I made the argument to shop him this last offseason. Always been injury prone and came in to the season with alot more expectations without the help of a pf to take pressure off of him. Plus he doesn't play defense despite what some on here say.

Sadly the vets are either hurt or playing poorly outside of Brewer. We would certainly be selling low. The whole ankle thing with Pek is a huge concern. We he ever be healthy enough to post 16/8 type numbers again? If he shows that will he be trade-able to a team that needs a big?

bleedspeed177 wrote:Sadly the vets are either hurt or playing poorly outside of Brewer. We would certainly be selling low. The whole ankle thing with Pek is a huge concern. We he ever be healthy enough to post 16/8 type numbers again? If he shows that will he be trade-able to a team that needs a big?

Agreed Bleed. His production won't be any better and nobody will give us fair value. He and his agent pulled off a nice scam here, getting 60 million from us.

PorkChop wrote:

papalrep wrote:Hard to disagree. But what is Pek's trade value now, with 12m over 5 years guarenteed?

Not much at this point. Which is why I made the argument to shop him this last offseason. Always been injury prone and came in to the season with alot more expectations without the help of a pf to take pressure off of him. Plus he doesn't play defense despite what some on here say.

I was with you on that, porkchop...I just didn't get locking up the brittle Pek for 5 years at $12 million per, and I was ready to roll with Dieng at center. I knew that Pek had to go, and I was willing to accept far lesser value in return. But I don't fault Flip, because I'm convinced he made an effort to deal Pek in the offseason. Of course I don't know for sure, but Flip's a smart guy, and he had to see that Gorgui was ready and that $12 million was too much for an oft-injured backup. But I just don't think there was any market out there. Nobody needed a center badly enough to take on that risky, bad contract. I fault Flip for the signing, but not for the inability to trade him.

Long, how can you not blame Flip when he gave Pek the contract. No other team was even courting Pek. He made no trips to other teams, but yet Flip not only offered him 12 mil/yr, but went longer than any other team could have matched. It was a classic "bidding against ourselves" screw up. Where was the harm in letting him play out his RFA year on a QO of around 7 mil, and then worst case scenario matching a max offer from another team if you thought he worth it and stayed healthy (which he did not)? We should have offered a 4/44 type contract, and left it up to Pek.

An even bigger boneheaded move was coming into the season with a hobbled Pek, and having one of his backups in Ronny, having an injured hip as well. Flip completely screwed this team when he signed Hummel early on in the off season. Why aren't we giving minutes to GR3 at this point. We are being blown out of the gym, but like Adelman before him, Flip refuses to try other options, and instead continues to throw the vets on the floor late in the game, as if they are somehow going to transform into different players.

Why is it that in Minny we continue to sign players that are forced to play undersized because they don't have the necessary skillsets required to play the position that their size dictates?

No, you're right about Flip deserving to be ripped about the Pek deal, sjm, and I do blame him. His signing of Pek was his darkest hour as a POB. Pek is so brittle that I expect him to be out more often than not, and frankly he hasn't helped us much when he has been on the court. My biggest hope is that the new TV contract increases the cap so much that Pek's contract doesn't appear so absurd anymore, and we are then able to trade him for someone that can help us.

I'm not on board with the "play GR3" sentiment though. I suspect that Flip sees in practice what I saw in his years at Michigan...a guy that is not likely to ever be a rotation guy. I'm with you that Flip doesn't need to give so many minutes to our vets, but right now Shabazz isn't getting nearly enough minutes in my opinion, and he and GR3 play the same position.

When I look at this team, I still see too many guys that don't pull their weight compared to their salary. The new NBA rules dictate that players, more than ever, need to justify their salaries in order for a team to thrive. Brewer is a perfect example of what is wrong with NBA teams like the Wolves. Many look at his $5M as a decent deal. Personally, I find it putrid. I can probably find 25-50 guys that perform equally that make less money. Some, substantially less. Brewer at $5M is OK for a playoff team that is in need of deep bench help, and they only have exceptions to work with. This often creates a warranted need to overpay a guy. The Wolves are not in this situation. In order to get a handle on the future, you need to make sound decisions today. While many people don't like Hummel, his $800k 1 YEAR DEAL is exactly what you want to have on this type of team. Brewer at $5M over the next 2 years is exactly the type of deal that makes virtually no difference to wins and loses, but can dramatically handcuff our ability to add more optimal pieces in the near future. Same can be said for Chase....although, with Chase, at least we have potentially the single worst player in the NBA....we got that going for us. And anyone that thinks we even have a remote chance of trading Chase this season or next is off his rocker. And yes, Chase certainly picks up his option next season because if not, he is playing in China or wherever else horrible basketball players go to die.

And I actually like what Martin provides for his money. He was brought in to be a scorer and help Love and team win games. The deal looks bad now that we are clearly tanking, but that wasn't the thought process when he was signed. He can, and should be dealt this year. He will have good value around the league as long as he can come back relatively soon. And Pek....can't say anything else that hasn't been said. We managed to outbid ourselves for an injury prone big guy that is very limited in his impact to the game. And guess what, he is holding to form and missing a ton of games. We are stuck with him.

Someone brought up not "flipping" guys too early, and letting the team gel. It is easier said than done. When you have guys producing moderate (at best) stats like Bennett, but making $6-7M.....decisions need to be made. It would be great if we could sit and analyze these players for 5+ seasons, but the money side of the business doesn't make this feasible. You need to evaluate quickly, and get out early if possible (i.e. D-Will and Wes). Not an easy decision either way.

PorkChop wrote:What are we really talking about here? This team is arguably the worst in the NBA . Every asset should be considered tradeable. This team isn't even on the cusp of playoff talk. Let's stop building for an 8th seed and start looking more long term. Gather picks and hope we hit a home run or two. Laying our hopes on guys like Martin and Pek is ridiculous when legitimate contenders would be considering them valuable role players

I chose to quote Porkchop because he best summarizes what multiple people are expressing. I'd like to express that I disagree with almost all of it. Gather picks, trade pek, martin, brewer, bud, etc.. All of that is so easy to type, but none of these options are very feasible.

1) Everyone wants to take chances on the draft, but I thought that is what we are doing? The Durants and Lebrons come every 5 years or so, and we all know, or should accept by the virtue of bad luck, that the T-Wolves will likely not have a shot at any of the "for sure" players. We currently have 3 Rookies in Wiggins, Lavine, and GR3, and 3 Sophomores in Dieng, Muhammad, and Bennett. Us fans have gotten so accustomed to bottom dwelling and a turnover rate with our draft picks that typically lasts 2-3 years. Yet those terrible picks are in the past and were done by McHale and Kahn. Our rookies and sophomores, with the exception of GR3, have shown more promise than 90% of those previous picks. I believe the times of Derrick Williams, Wesley Johnson, Johnny Flynn, Rashad McCants, etc. are behind us. Flip has shown promise evaluating talent, let's give this group 3 years before we count them all as duds.
(By the way, Randy Foye was likely the one pick that we did give up on too early as he turned into a decent player after we parted ways.)

2) As a franchise we have lacked continuity from the head coaching position. Outside of Flip himself from 95-2005, we have gone through head coaches like bar whores. It has been new coach after new coach both before and after Flip. That is new system, after new system. You cannot build a consistent successful franchise when a new coach comes in, implements new systems, and parts ways/picks up players who they see fit for their system. Then within the next 2 years, you have yet another new coach who comes in and recycles the team/system yet again. That is not a good approach for player development, and it has shown with our franchise. Flip was the best coach we had, and is the only one which under we saw above .500 seasons and the playoffs. I, for one, am so very glad he is back here. I realize he will likely hire a new head coach in the next 3 years, but at least he will be the one picking the coach, one who will likely have a similar system/outlook on the future.

3) Flip already perused the market with Brewer, and he obviously did not receive any offers that would be a bigger benefit to this team than Brewer himself, so he kept him. That was the right choice.

4) We all want to trade Pek, well that time has passed. Sorry, but teams will not value a $12 mil a year player as a role player.... He does not fit well on nearly any team, most cant afford him, and the return on him wouldn't exceed his value to us when he is healthy as other teams will see the $ and injury history and lowball. Last year was the time to trade him, and I thought the perfect place was New Orleans as he would have fit well with Anthony Davis. Now they have no need. I hope like hell we can move him to open up cap space for free agents this year, but I wont hold my breath for it.

5) Budinger is worthless to any team right now. People think we can call up a team as if they don't see the film we see? I highly doubt we'd get an offer of a 2nd round pick or matching salary from anyone. His $5mil price tag and player option is quite the deterrent when combined with horrible play.

6) Martin is our only viable trade option. He happens to be our best scorer, and contending teams will always want a player like martin as a sixth man. Martin is also our best option this year to keep games close and to win games. Rubio is great, but he needs shooters out there. Martin right now is our only one. I'd trade him for sure if we received a good young player in return, regardless of position. I might trade him for a draft pick that projected from 10-15, but id just as well hold onto him. He fits this team well when we are fully healthy. If he is traded this year I see it more as a way to rid us of Budinger as well in a package deal, though I doubt it happens.

In conclusion, we need to watch this project unfold. We as fans are so used to turnover of coaches and players, and with that comes a lot of losing seasons. I've seen plenty of change and promise this year to believe that this time is truly different. I have hope not just because I should say that as a Minnesota sports fan who has done that for every team in the last 15 years, but because this time is definitively different. There is an approach I can finally see, understand, and accept. I, for one, will gladly sit idly by and see it through. Flip has 3 years of patience from me to finally do this right, and I'm betting he makes it happen.